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 Page 1 of 3 123
Username Post: EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculation) Troubleshooting        (Topic#258416)
someotherguy 
Moderator
Posts: 25971
someotherguy
Age: 44
Loc: Texas
Reg: 08-01-03
02-28-11 06:31 PM - Post#2053697    

This guide is for troubleshooting EGR problems on TBI engines (1987-1995) using a negative pressure (vacuum-operated) valve, which are the majority of the TBI 5.0 and 5.7 truck engines. If in doubt, check the part number on the valve, it should end with an "N" for negative.

This is written for use by your average DIY'er – there are no instructions that require a GM Tech 1 scanner or any special tools other than a simple vacuum tester (Mityvac) and a multimeter. It is not an exhaustive guide on the entire system and every potential possibility, but an attempt at a brief explanation of operation, and identifying the common failures.

What the EGR system does and when:

The EGR system allows exhaust gas to be introduced into the intake stream in order to cool combustion chamber temperatures under load. This reduces NOx emissions and helps prevent pinging (detonation.) The EGR valve is closed at idle. On throttle application, the EGR valve will be commanded open by the PCM as needed.

How the PCM tests the EGR system:

The PCM waits for many conditions to be met before running the EGR test. From 1994 factory manual: PCM must be in closed loop, above 32 MPH, throttle position 10% to 25%, steady throttle with no more than 2% change, MAP reading above 47.5 kPa or below 15 kPa, maximum short term fuel trim less than 6 counts for 3.2 seconds, desired EGR command greater than 93%.

In simple terms? This tends to happen when you're cruising on flat ground on the highway.

At this point the PCM will momentarily de-energize the EGR solenoid to close the valve. The PCM watches the fuel integrator counts to see if they increase compared to normal EGR operation. If it fails twice in a row, code 32 is set and check engine light is illuminated.

Possible symptoms of EGR trouble:

- Rough idle and rough part throttle operation (valve opening too easily or stuck open)
- May stall during transition from idle to part throttle (valve opening too easily or stuck open)
- Noticeable pinging (detonation) especially when engine is under load (valve inoperative)
- Trouble code 32 (valve inoperative)
- Hard or no start although fuel and spark are present (valve stuck wide open)

Possible Failure Modes:

- The vacuum supply from the TBI unit to the EGR solenoid can be disconnected, broken, clogged, or incorrectly connected
- The EGR solenoid can be faulty or the electrical connection to it can be missing or damaged
- The vacuum supply from the EGR solenoid can be disconnected, broken, clogged, or incorrectly connected
- The EGR valve can be faulty, clogged, or the incorrect part for the application
- The EGR passages in the intake can be clogged with carbon

Check connections (see pics):

- Vacuum line from the lower passenger side of TBI to front side (single port) of the EGR solenoid
- Vacuum line from the barbed port on the rear side (two ports) of the EGR solenoid to the EGR valve
- Smooth port on rear side of EGR solenoid should be OPEN, or sometimes a small foam filter may still be present from factory; either is fine
- Check plastic lines for breakage and be sure hose boots are still pliable and grip well; if they have hardened or cracked they will not seal
- Wiring harness connection to the EGR solenoid (gray and pink/black wire)





Troubleshooting:

The most common EGR system failure on our trucks is the valve itself; the diaphragm fails so the EGR valve will not open. You can eliminate this possibility right off the bat by testing the valve with a vacuum tester (Mityvac.) Shut the engine off and connect the tester directly to the EGR valve. Pull vacuum (around 15 inches is plenty) and be sure it holds for a minimum of 20 seconds. If it does not build or hold vacuum, the valve could be held open by a chunk of carbon, which you could attempt to clean out – but most likely, the valve is bad and needs to be replaced.

If the valve passes the hold test - with vacuum still showing as holding on the tester, have a helper start the engine while you watch the gauge. The vacuum should bleed off immediately.

Determine whether the EGR passages in the intake are clogged by carefully depressing the EGR diaphragm with your fingers. Take care to not burn your fingers or get them caught in the openings under the EGR. When you press the diaphragm, the engine should stumble noticeably, and possibly stall. If there is little or no response, the passages in the intake are likely clogged with carbon. Effective cleaning of these passages requires removal of the intake manifold.

Check the vacuum source to the EGR solenoid. Connect a vacuum tester (Mityvac) to the line leading from the TBI unit to the front (single port) side of the solenoid. There should be full vacuum at idle, around 20 inches/Hg on a stock engine. If not, remove the line from the TBI and connect the tester directly to the TBI to verify vacuum. If none, the port itself may be clogged.

Reconnect the line from the TBI to the solenoid and move the tester to the line exiting the rear of the solenoid. At idle there should be NO vacuum reading (be sure you purged your gauge if necessary so that it reads zero before connecting.) Snapping the throttle should show some activity on the gauge as the solenoid briefly commands the EGR open.

With the meter set on ohms, you can test the EGR solenoid coil across the two pins in the socket; any reading less than 20 ohms indicates a bad solenoid winding.

With the meter set on DC voltage, or using a test light, check the EGR solenoid harness terminal A (pink/black) to ground. Key on, meter should read 12V or the test light should light up. Do not pierce the wire to test, simply unplug it and touch the test lead to the connector pin.

Another possible failure that is difficult to test for is a weak spring inside the valve allowing it to open too easily. If you have exhausted all other efforts you may consider replacing the valve.

Replacing the EGR valve:

The best bet for getting the correct valve is to go to the dealer. If you are unable to, at the very minimum, get a Delphi brand from the parts house. Avoid other brands, especially universal types where you change the size of the orifice by installing washers. These are the worst. TBI engines are very picky about the EGR valves.

IF THE DEALER TRIES TO SELL YOU AN AFTERMARKET TYPE VALVE you should hit the parts house and check out a Delphi direct replacement instead. I have recently gotten info that some GM dealers are offering aftermarket "one size fits many" valves. I would avoid these at all costs. They may work, may not; I'd rather have a direct replacement.

Be sure to buy a new gasket for the EGR valve, and apply a very thin coat of anti-seize lubricant on both sides of it. This will tend to make the gasket re-usable in the event you need to remove the EGR valve in the future.

If you have EGR system problems, by all means please troubleshoot and repair them instead of removing the valve. Removing the valve guarantees increased NOx emissions, higher potential for harmful pinging, constant code 32 with check engine light illuminated, and instant failure of any smog test that may apply in your area.

Richard
94 C2500LD / 97 Suburban LS1 / 06 300C SRT8
Check out my truck shop projects


 
Low priced Genuine GM Auto Parts
Phazer 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3004
Phazer
Loc: Armpit of the Universe
Reg: 10-10-03
02-28-11 06:41 PM - Post#2053705    
    In response to someotherguy

EXCELLENT post Richard ! ! !

Between work & CT, do you have a life?
My "To Do List" for this weekend:
Nothing but womens names...
and drugs....

92 Bravada
96 Sunfire
00 Impala
05 Stratus
90 Wrangler
77 Cub Lo-boy
87 Intruder VS700
95 Intruder VS1400


 
fritz1990 
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 6425
fritz1990
Age: 53
Loc: Kansas
Reg: 02-16-03
02-28-11 07:08 PM - Post#2053722    
    In response to Phazer

Yes, for the excellent write up!

I will be using this at work as my '92 work pu is having EGR issues but I am pretty sure it's the valve itself. Still going to check it all out per your write up.

Thanks again, Richard!

Regards, Jeff
1998 K1500 6.5 Coal burner
1965 C10 with 498 BBC AFR Heads
1964 C10 Ran 348W for 6 years, now SBC.

Corvettes owned: '74 '77 '78 L82 Silver Anniversary, 2002 LS1

Don't have a nervous come together!

http://picasaweb.google.com/fritz199090


 
someotherguy 
Moderator
Posts: 25971
someotherguy
Age: 44
Loc: Texas
Reg: 08-01-03
02-28-11 07:22 PM - Post#2053731    
    In response to fritz1990

Glad y'all like it, and no, apparently I DON'T have a life!

Actually it's easy to write stuff like this up, I just start a Word document and add to it, revise it over time until I think it's cooked long enough to go live. I ran this one by a few members here (thank you) to give it a glance before I posted it up.

I'm adding it to the FAQ post in just a sec. Hope it helps!

Richard
94 C2500LD / 97 Suburban LS1 / 06 300C SRT8
Check out my truck shop projects


 
ah64 guy 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 55

Age: 30
Loc: Jeferson City, Mo
Reg: 01-01-10
02-28-11 08:45 PM - Post#2053768    
    In response to someotherguy

Thank you for that information I will run the scenarios on my egr to verify the issue befor ei go buy one from the dealership. You have been a great help.
91 GMC K1500 5.7L Short bed
95 GMC C1500 5.0L Long Bed (Was my Pappy's)
02 Ultra Classic
14 VW Tiguan



 
someotherguy 
Moderator
Posts: 25971
someotherguy
Age: 44
Loc: Texas
Reg: 08-01-03
02-28-11 08:50 PM - Post#2053773    
    In response to ah64 guy

This won't really apply to testing a new parts house EGR valve for whether or not it will work on your truck. It's for testing for failures in the system. The problem with the parts house EGR's is they usually don't spec close enough with the OEM unit to work properly on these engines. So, in effect, these tests are assuming you have the correct EGR installed. What "correct" means can be subjective depending on who you talk with; to me it means the OEM valve. Some have had luck with the aftermarket valves - I prefer not to gamble and give myself headaches with them.

Richard
94 C2500LD / 97 Suburban LS1 / 06 300C SRT8
Check out my truck shop projects


 
dralliw454 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 55

Age: 39
Loc: Honolulu
Reg: 07-24-07
03-08-11 12:53 PM - Post#2057888    
    In response to someotherguy

Thanks for the info! Aloha!

 
livemike 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 16

Reg: 08-13-09
03-17-11 10:53 AM - Post#2063054    
    In response to dralliw454

Wow, thanks.

 
livemike 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 16

Reg: 08-13-09
03-17-11 12:29 PM - Post#2063092    
    In response to livemike

OK I got a fresh code 32 today. Went through the troubleshooting list above and everything checked good. Assuming EGR valve is good, what else should I be looking at?

 
livemike 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 16

Reg: 08-13-09
03-18-11 02:58 PM - Post#2063585    
    In response to livemike

Any other suggestions? I'm hoping to have time this weekend to wok on this but I don't know where to go. Bad ECM? Grounds? Other vacuum leaks?

 
Phazer 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3004
Phazer
Loc: Armpit of the Universe
Reg: 10-10-03
03-18-11 04:33 PM - Post#2063633    
    In response to livemike

Could a "lazy" O2 cause this by not seeing the change it wants to in the fuel intigrator?

EGR request, PCM looks for a change, lazy O2 doesn't see it, so C/E light?

Just sayin . . .
My "To Do List" for this weekend:
Nothing but womens names...
and drugs....

92 Bravada
96 Sunfire
00 Impala
05 Stratus
90 Wrangler
77 Cub Lo-boy
87 Intruder VS700
95 Intruder VS1400


 
Chevy90Z71 
Member
Posts: 139
Chevy90Z71
Loc: USA
Reg: 01-24-01
03-21-11 10:19 AM - Post#2064900    
    In response to Phazer

Richard, nicely done. I'll be checking out my EGR valve for the following problem.
My 1990 K1500 5.7 has been acting up. Runs fine accept at a steady throttle or with the cruise control on(light loads) at any speed, when I come to a slight incline it feels like its skipping or breaking up, lack of power. If I step on the gas, it will down shift and be fine. Runs fine under full throttle. No check engine light or fault codes. New plugs, cap, rotor, wires, air/gas filters. New GM motor with about 30,000 miles. Thanks in advance for any help.
Bob.
90 Silverado Z71, 5.7,Sportside,reg cab,K&N filter, Gibson cat-back split rear exhaust.


Edited by Chevy90Z71 on 03-21-11 10:21 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
someotherguy 
Moderator
Posts: 25971
someotherguy
Age: 44
Loc: Texas
Reg: 08-01-03
03-24-11 03:50 PM - Post#2066581    
    In response to Chevy90Z71

Just remember that a problem with the EGR being open when it shouldn't (idle, light load part throttle, etc.) will disappear when you get onto the pedal as that's when it would open normally. To that end so far I don't have a good test to suggest for this other than temporarily installing a block-off plate to see if the problem clears up. That should in turn bring up the potential for pinging as you no longer have EGR function, so I do NOT suggest leaving it this way - it's just to determine if the EGR was causing the poor idle/part throttle stumble, by opening when it should not.

Richard
94 C2500LD / 97 Suburban LS1 / 06 300C SRT8
Check out my truck shop projects


 
Chevy90Z71 
Member
Posts: 139
Chevy90Z71
Loc: USA
Reg: 01-24-01
03-25-11 04:28 AM - Post#2066836    
    In response to someotherguy

Thanks Richard.
Bob.
90 Silverado Z71, 5.7,Sportside,reg cab,K&N filter, Gibson cat-back split rear exhaust.


 
Smokey 
Senior Site Adminstrator
Posts: 17447
Smokey
Age: 65
Loc: "Small town USA"
Reg: 12-06-99
03-25-11 02:48 PM - Post#2067094    
    In response to someotherguy

Great write up Richard!
I've had that code 32 twice before but it only happenes with extended driving. When it does happen it's a soft code, meaning upon a key recycle the code 32 is gone and the light is no longer illuminated (but code stored of course).
The truck is running great though without any drivability problems.
'67 427 Chevy C-10
'79 454 surburban
'89 454 1 ton dually
'03 V-Star 1100


In Memory of CT's Mike McVeigh and Ron Schrapp (aka rons56)


 
someotherguy 
Moderator
Posts: 25971
someotherguy
Age: 44
Loc: Texas
Reg: 08-01-03
03-25-11 04:04 PM - Post#2067126    
    In response to Smokey

Hey Smokey - if you think about the conditions under which the ECM performs the EGR test, you'll see why many people may only rarely see the code, and some may never see it. If someone routinely makes a lot of short trips or constant stop/go traffic, the conditions are almost impossible to meet for the test to be run.

Since the ECM's test of the EGR system can only show a valve that isn't opening when commanded to, that's something you can suss out pretty quickly with the Mityvac. In other words, never (or rarely) seeing a code 32 doesn't mean you can rule out EGR problems; if you suspect them then it's time to do the testing with the Mityvac.

Richard
94 C2500LD / 97 Suburban LS1 / 06 300C SRT8
Check out my truck shop projects


 
Koolhand233 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 18

Loc: Maryville, TN
Reg: 11-23-08
05-29-11 11:44 PM - Post#2096798    
    In response to someotherguy

Thank you for the write up. It has really helped me and I'm sure others in diagnosing these EGR problems, but what does it mean if you have no voltage to the solenoid? Is it supossed to have voltage with engine off and key on?

With the key on and with a multimeter, I have no voltage to the solenoid plug. I also stripped the wires about 6 inches back and have no voltage there either. Does the solenoid draw its power from the ecu, or somewhere else and also, how would one go about back tracing these wires to the home origin? Is there an easy way to identify them on the back of the ecu?

I have not tested the solenoid for its proper operation, but it is new...I replaced it thinking it had gone bad causing the code 32 I am receiving. All tests on the egr valve itself were ok. It held vacuum, and the engine died when it was idling and I opened it. The truck runs great with no noticeable symptoms other than the CEL code 32. I also have good vacuum coming from the TBI. Any suggestions or help would be appreciated.

 
someotherguy 
Moderator
Posts: 25971
someotherguy
Age: 44
Loc: Texas
Reg: 08-01-03
05-30-11 07:31 AM - Post#2096904    
    In response to Koolhand233

Yep, "With the meter set on DC voltage, or using a test light, check the EGR solenoid harness terminal A (pink/black) to ground. Key on, meter should read 12V or the test light should light up. Do not pierce the wire to test, simply unplug it and touch the test lead to the connector pin."

Be sure the spot you're using as a ground reference is a good connection, by touching your positive meter lead temporarily to the positive battery terminal.

Richard
94 C2500LD / 97 Suburban LS1 / 06 300C SRT8
Check out my truck shop projects


 
4carbcorvair 
Contributor
Posts: 264

Age: 41
Loc: Maine
Reg: 09-02-07
06-03-11 04:18 PM - Post#2099002    
    In response to someotherguy

I'm assuming the other wire only sends power to the solonoid when the EGR is needed to be open?

 
Bill K.b 
Senior Member
Posts: 4289

Loc: upstate NY
Reg: 10-24-05
06-03-11 08:47 PM - Post#2099108    
    In response to 4carbcorvair

Is it possible for the EGR to stick open and not set a code, but at the same time the engine in trying to compensate can't open the IAC valve far enough to idle like the computer wants, and set an error code there?

I kind of think that's what I have going on in my van, it has an intermittent hesitation from light pedal when trying to accelerate and has a couple times idled erratic and tried to stall - a goose of the pedal makes it behave.

When it sits and idles usually it throws a check engine light after a few minutes, but the only code is the IAC error. I checked the IAC out, it was clean, I swapped it out with another one just in case (good used from an identical, lower milage van), no change.

I have the EGR from the same van, I've been meaning to swap it out for a while now just to see if it makes a difference. $6 used beats $75 new any day, even if it doesn't last at least I know what the problem is.
Those who can, do. Those who can't, criticize it on the internet.

1988 G20 van 5.7L - driver.
1993 3500 dually 5.7L NV4500 - tow truck
1991 G20 van - parts truck

Plus cars for swap and sale
&yes, I once tried a frame swap on a 51 Chevy.


 
Koolhand233 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 18

Loc: Maryville, TN
Reg: 11-23-08
06-11-11 10:32 PM - Post#2102361    
    In response to someotherguy

Ok, I have done the test as described and can not read any power going to the solenoid plug. Where does the EGR solenoid get its power from? Should I also be able to read power to the evap canister solenoid that sits right in front of the TBI, next to the thermostat? The truck runs great, but the SES light is getting on my nerves....Code 32.

 
someotherguy 
Moderator
Posts: 25971
someotherguy
Age: 44
Loc: Texas
Reg: 08-01-03
06-12-11 10:47 AM - Post#2102537    
    In response to Koolhand233

Let me dig into the factory service manual and see if I can find an answer for you. I haven't had to troubleshoot one that wasn't activating the solenoid so I have no experience to that end.

Richard
94 C2500LD / 97 Suburban LS1 / 06 300C SRT8
Check out my truck shop projects


 
someotherguy 
Moderator
Posts: 25971
someotherguy
Age: 44
Loc: Texas
Reg: 08-01-03
06-12-11 10:54 AM - Post#2102542    
    In response to someotherguy

OK, to expand on what I put in the original write-up:

  • someotherguy Said:
With the meter set on DC voltage, or using a test light, check the EGR solenoid harness terminal A (pink/black) to ground. Key on, meter should read 12V or the test light should light up. Do not pierce the wire to test, simply unplug it and touch the test lead to the connector pin.



Factory service manual says:

Connect test light between harness connector terminals. Ignition ON, engine OFF. Test light should light.

If test light OFF, connect test light between harness terminal "A" (pink/black) and ground.

If test light OFF, repair open circuit 439. If test light ON, repair open circuit 435. If not open, ECM faulty.

There is also a note that says if the solenoid resistance reads less than 20 ohms, replace it.

Circuit 435 is the gray wire between the EGR solenoid terminal B and connector A4 on the ECM.

Circuit 439 is the pink/black wire from the EGR solenoid terminal A through the ECM/IGN circuit powered by the ignition switch.

Richard
94 C2500LD / 97 Suburban LS1 / 06 300C SRT8
Check out my truck shop projects


 
MattCHollis1988 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 27

Reg: 05-16-11
06-14-11 03:33 PM - Post#2103494    
    In response to someotherguy

Thanks for this post it helped me finally figure out what was wrong with my truck, what I thought was a fuel pump malfunction turned out to be a disconnected valve I removed the valve cleaned it and reinstalled it with new vacuum lines now it is running like dream this post was much better than the hanes repair manual

 
Koolhand233 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 18

Loc: Maryville, TN
Reg: 11-23-08
06-15-11 05:38 PM - Post#2104015    
    In response to someotherguy

Hey thanks for the help. After reading your last post I believe I was able to determine that circuit 439 was bad. I have ran another wire to the connector and an ignition power source and so far, after a couple of hundred miles no more light. I guess the wire has gotten broken or deteriorated over the years. Also explains how come sometimes I could drive it 70 miles and no light and sometime I could drive it 5 and the light would come on. Anyway, thank you so much for the help.

 
someotherguy 
Moderator
Posts: 25971
someotherguy
Age: 44
Loc: Texas
Reg: 08-01-03
06-15-11 06:06 PM - Post#2104029    
    In response to Koolhand233

Thanks for the responses guys and glad it helped!

Richard
94 C2500LD / 97 Suburban LS1 / 06 300C SRT8
Check out my truck shop projects


 
Nick94 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 66

Reg: 05-07-12
05-07-12 10:33 AM - Post#2223447    
    In response to someotherguy

In your posting regarding EGR you indicated that once removed you would have higher NOx reading and possible emission problems. Can you elaborate?

 
someotherguy 
Moderator
Posts: 25971
someotherguy
Age: 44
Loc: Texas
Reg: 08-01-03
05-07-12 08:39 PM - Post#2223640    
    In response to Nick94

The EGR valve cools the combustion chamber by introducing exhaust gas which is fairly inert (well, at least relative to the normal air/fuel mixture from the TBI) - this in turn lowers NOx emissions. Without the EGR, NOx increases and can cause you to fail a smog check on that level.

Richard
94 C2500LD / 97 Suburban LS1 / 06 300C SRT8
Check out my truck shop projects


 
Nick94 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 66

Reg: 05-07-12
05-08-12 09:31 AM - Post#2223783    
    In response to someotherguy

Thank you Richard.

 
lstuart270 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 5

Loc: San Diego, CA
Reg: 08-16-12
08-16-12 01:21 PM - Post#2259988    
    In response to someotherguy

Vehicle: 1995 Chevrolet K1500 stock 350 TBI; 153k miles.

Symptoms: Stumble/hesitation/chuggi ng on application of very slight throttle. Crawling up inclines or slowly accelerating from green light or in parking lots, engine would stumble and sound like hell. When letting off the throttle the engine would nearly stall with very low rpms (~400) before the ECM stabilized it out. Never completely stalled. Idled smooth. Ran fine at higher RPMs or driving down the highway. Symptoms only appeared when engine was at normal operating temperature.

Solution: Disconnected vacuum line from EGR valve and symptoms stopped. Replaced EGR valve with new ACDelco from GM dealer, reconnected vacuum line and all symptoms stopped. Engine runs normal.



Just posting this for posterity. This forum helped me diagnose this after running lots of tests and wild goose chases all over the vehicle. Saved me lots of time and money. Maybe this will help out someone else.

Thanks.

1988 GMC k2500 (6 lug, 9.5")
1995 K1500 4x4


 
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