Gain extra benefits by becoming a Supporting Member Click here find out how!
Silver
Gold ***Platinum***
50chev1067 (2)Don H (5)Runningon6zonk2ajoda (6)
ShoeboxTOMD45 buscobill
1963SBHD (4)Dean50 (8)Backyardbuild jumbojim (3)
InkaholicMike (3)
Classic Performance Products
Ciadella Interiors American Auto Wire Art Morrison.com
Exile® Battery Keeper™ 6/12 volt charger w/ LED battery monitor
Hellwig Products IncPerformance Rod & Custom
Impala Bob's Bob's Chevy Trucks Bob's Chevelle Parts Bob's Classic Chevy

  >> Switch to Mobile Version <<

Recent Hot Topics
Current Quote
"Let's ALL do what we can to TOOT THE HORN for ChevyTalk - OUR BOWTIE BROTHERHOOD IS THE BEST ON THE 'NET!!!"
~ Supporting Member
Recent Topics
Join the Community today
**
New ** Easy eBay Search Tool







Username Post: Street/strip combo advice?        (Topic#253466)
60chev 
Contributor
Posts: 105
60chev
Loc: Rotchester, NY
Reg: 01-24-09
11-28-10 07:25 AM - Post#2010446    

Does this combination sound like it will work? Doing some changes to my lo-dollar rat 57 to make it more radical. Here is a list of what I have and what I want to do:
-350 4-bolt 9:1 motor (lo-mileage stock)
-.467/.467 110 degree cam
-2400 rpm stall th400 tranny w/shift kit
-3:55 rear gears w/traction bars
-3250lb car
-longtube headers w/straight thru mufflers
-single plain high rise intake manifold
-fuel cell and trunk battery set-up
Not sure of carb yet possibly 650-750cfm holley. Any thoughts or recomendations are welcome. This car will see about 50/50 street-strip, but want to go as fast as possible for the low budjet I have, hopefully into the low 13's in th 1/4. Will be driven to the strip and raced. Traction might be a problem ( will deal with on as needed basis). Thanks for any help.
60chev

57 Bel-Air Wagon 350/2004r


Edited by 60chev on 11-28-10 07:46 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
This Forum is Sponsored by

bobsclassicchevy.com
MikeB 
Senior Member
Posts: 9473
MikeB
Loc: Plano, TX
Reg: 08-28-03
11-28-10 08:59 AM - Post#2010477    
    In response to 60chev

A few questions:

Is it a pre-1986 block with 2-piece main seal or later model block with 1-piece main seal?

What kind of cylinder heads does it have?

Re the .467/.467 cam, do you know the cam's manufacturer and model number? If not, how about advertised duration (like 262, 270, 280 etc) and duration at .050" lift.

A couple comments here: A modern hi-rise, dual plane manifold like an Edelbrock Performer RPM or Weiand Stealth will make more power below 5000 RPM than a single plane manifold, with the added benefit of better driveability. (This is according to a CTer who works for Holley.)

Also, a 600-670 carb is big enough for all but the most radical 350s. All a 750 will do is hurt throttle response and suck gas, unless it's a Q-jet.
Real Hot Rods have a Clutch!

1955 210 2dr: 327, Brodix IK180 heads, Jones cam, M20, Wilwood front brakes

1982 C-10 SWB pickup, 250 six, 3-speed

My car pictures



 
60chev 
Contributor
Posts: 105
60chev
Loc: Rotchester, NY
Reg: 01-24-09
11-28-10 09:11 AM - Post#2010481    
    In response to MikeB

222 @.050, 278 advertised Summit cam. Stock iron .194 heads. pre 86 goodwrench reman motor.
60chev

57 Bel-Air Wagon 350/2004r


 
MikeB 
Senior Member
Posts: 9473
MikeB
Loc: Plano, TX
Reg: 08-28-03
11-28-10 10:08 AM - Post#2010507    
    In response to 60chev

Just found it. It's their P/N SUM-1788. That's a series of Summit-branded cams I didn't even know they had. Most are the 1100 series, like 1101, 1102, etc.

I can't find the cam card and they don't list the intake center line, so it's hard to know when the intake valve closes.

Their description is:

Lopey-rough idle, upper midrange power. Works best with 2,000+ stall, 9:1 and higher compression, and gearing.

9:1 might be on the low side of optimal, but otherwise I think the cam will work well with your gearing and converter. I'm always leery of GM compression specs, because they tend to be on the high side of actual, sometimes by 0.5 or more.

I'd feel better with actual compression closer to 9.5:1. If current actual compression is 9.0:1 and the head gaskets are .038" thick, you can get to 9.2:1 by using a GM .028" gasket. Some 350s had even thicker gaskets (up to .051"). If that's the case, going to .028" would get you to 9.45:1. If it's in your budget, you could get the heads milled .030". I don't have a calculator for this, but depending on chamber volume, you can gain 0.5 or more this way on a 350.

Guess I should add here that some of the factory heads simply will not get you to the performance level you're looking for. It's probably a good idea to post the casting numbers, and then guys more knowledgeable than me can tell you what kind of performance potential they have. Just right off the bat, I'm guessing stock 350 heads with 1.94" valves are not performance oriented.

That said, there's an old Hot Rod Magazine article where they started with a Goodwrench 350 with 8:1 compression and crappy heads with 76 cc chambers. They got it to make over 300 HP with the proper cam, intake, carb, and headers. Later on in the project, as I recall, they bolted on some GM Vortec heads and got the motor to make >350 hp. Vortecs have better port flow and a high-swirl chamber design, as well as 64cc combustion chambers, which probably upped the compression to 9.0:1.
Real Hot Rods have a Clutch!

1955 210 2dr: 327, Brodix IK180 heads, Jones cam, M20, Wilwood front brakes

1982 C-10 SWB pickup, 250 six, 3-speed

My car pictures



 
60chev 
Contributor
Posts: 105
60chev
Loc: Rotchester, NY
Reg: 01-24-09
11-28-10 12:13 PM - Post#2010545    
    In response to MikeB

What cylinder pressure should I be reading for 9:1 compression ratio anyways? I dont want any bleed-off problems.If my motor is lower compression wise, what cam should I use. I have 420/442 cam on the shelf if that would be better, but wanted a more radical cam. Not worried about perfect streetabilty, I can deal with obnoxious idle.
60chev

57 Bel-Air Wagon 350/2004r


 
hutchensce 
Senior Member
Posts: 1980

Loc: Laramie, WY
Reg: 11-02-04
11-28-10 04:16 PM - Post#2010675    
    In response to 60chev

The 222 at .050 cam will not be obnoxious on the street at all. I have the L-82 cam (which has very similar duration and lift) in a 350 with stock Vortecs heads and it's pretty tame, power brakes work just fine, etc.

For something seeing 50% strip time, I'd get something a good deal bigger if you don't need to run power brakes and you can get a converter with the correct stall speed. Of course, a bigger cam will require more compression and might even necessitate new valve springs. Mike...is there any reason he can't run an .015 head gasket? If his pistons are .025 in the hole that'd give him .040 quench and close to 9.5:1 compression.

If you can afford new heads, or even pick up a pair of Vortecs for cheap, that might be the way to go.
Photos and such


 
Limey Tri Chevy 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3434
Limey Tri Chevy
Age: 48
Loc: Hertfordshire, England U...
Reg: 10-19-05
11-28-10 04:28 PM - Post#2010679    
    In response to hutchensce

I'm using a Summit 1105 on my wifes 350 in her (sshhhhhhhh model A sedan). Almost an exact copy of an Edelbrock cam costing over twice as much and capable with a set of headers & decent intake hitting the 300hp mark.

I'd certainly think of upping the lsa to at least 112 degrees & try to capture more cylinder pressure with that 9.1 CR.

I'd also prefer from a personal take something like an edelbrock dual plane performer rpm with a 1/2" phenolic spacer over a single plane intake with a car that weighs 3200lbs. I'd be surprised if you see any loss of top end power as your max power rpm point won't be as high as the single plane is capable of taking it but ..... you will notice a more tractable vehicle on the street.

Again a 600 cfm carb will provide all the fuel you need to this engines red line. It's not a race engine, it's an engine your going to race it won't need any more carb with the plans you have for it.

Fast & budget never make comfortable bed fellows but if you maximise what you have without hurting the streetability of the car you will have more fun than if you opted 100% for street or strip.

Good luck, this sounds like a fun project.
'57 Bel Air 4dr wagon
'57 210 2dr. 9.3 @ 155 mph 0-60 in 1.47 seconds
'55 Bel Air 2dr
'02 H/D Lightning
'08 Anniversary Custom 1200 Sportster
'30 Model A sedan

My pics


 
MikeB 
Senior Member
Posts: 9473
MikeB
Loc: Plano, TX
Reg: 08-28-03
11-28-10 06:31 PM - Post#2010735    
    In response to hutchensce

Here's good article on the effects of static compression ratio and intake valve closing angle on cylinder pressure: http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/816...

  • hutchensce Said:
Mike...is there any reason he can't run an .015 head gasket? If his pistons are .025 in the hole that'd give him .040 quench and close to 9.5:1 compression.



I wouldn't use a steel shim gasket unless head and block decks were freshly machined. That's not to say it won't work, but it's not good practice. Chad, does your Comp 270H have a lope in your 383? I'm pretty sure it would in a 350, but I think it would like at least 9.5:1.

  • Limey Tri Chevy Said:

I'd certainly think of upping the lsa to at least 112 degrees & try to capture more cylinder pressure with that 9.1 CR.



Actually that would leave the intake valve open longer.

But going to a cam with 108 LSA would do the trick, like an Isky #201271. Specs are 270/270, 221/221/108, .465"/.465
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ISK-201271/

Their #201271-6 has the same duration and lift but is ground on a tighter 106 LSA. I'd say that cam would make plenty of cylinder pressure and have a serious lopey idle due to the increased overlap.

It's worth noting a tighter LSA makes for a narrower, but harder hitting powerband. I'm sure there are articles you can find on that topic.
Real Hot Rods have a Clutch!

1955 210 2dr: 327, Brodix IK180 heads, Jones cam, M20, Wilwood front brakes

1982 C-10 SWB pickup, 250 six, 3-speed

My car pictures



 
60chev 
Contributor
Posts: 105
60chev
Loc: Rotchester, NY
Reg: 01-24-09
11-28-10 07:47 PM - Post#2010793    
    In response to MikeB

Thanx for the excellent replies. I have a dual plain intake too, so thats no problem. I looked at some .028 GM head gaskets which should get me to 9.3 or so maybe that .465 cam with the 108 lsa should do the trick. I can get a good deal on a holley 600 from the local Advance store. Should I advance the cam 4 degrees also to capture some additional offline torque (is it safe)? Thanks again guys, this is becoming a fun build!!!
60chev

57 Bel-Air Wagon 350/2004r


 
models916 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 2833

Age: 63
Loc: Addison, IL
Reg: 05-28-10
11-29-10 12:46 PM - Post#2011127    
    In response to 60chev

I would use a 10 inch 3,000 stall converter. Rev faster and launch harder, use a trans cooler.

 
60chev 
Contributor
Posts: 105
60chev
Loc: Rotchester, NY
Reg: 01-24-09
11-29-10 02:42 PM - Post#2011169    
    In response to models916

I plan on a tranny cooler. I want the 2400 stall for at least some steetablity.
60chev

57 Bel-Air Wagon 350/2004r


 
MikeB 
Senior Member
Posts: 9473
MikeB
Loc: Plano, TX
Reg: 08-28-03
11-29-10 10:33 PM - Post#2011452    
    In response to 60chev

  • 60chev Said:
Should I advance the cam 4 degrees also to capture some additional offline torque (is it safe)?


You are correct about cam advance making more low RPM torque, but it's best to choose the proper cam up front. Advancing/retarding can help fine tune later. I think that cam will work fine at 0 degrees with 9.0-9.5 compression. If you want to close the intake valve even sooner, go with the 106 LSA instead of starting with 4 degree cam advance.

I'd also call Isky and ask for their advice. They may recommend something different.

I think your TC choice is fine for 3.55 gears. A higher stall speed might make for too much slippage at highway speeds. I once had a TH350 with a Hughes GM20 (2000-2200). Even it was a little loose behind a 383 with 3.08 axle, but I loved it. Your engine will have less torque than a 383 and more gear reduction, so a 2400 should be fine.

models916 -- What size engine do you have, what is the axle ratio, and how much slip do you get on the highway?

60chev -- Please be sure to get back with us, or at least me, to tell us how all the parts work together.

Real Hot Rods have a Clutch!

1955 210 2dr: 327, Brodix IK180 heads, Jones cam, M20, Wilwood front brakes

1982 C-10 SWB pickup, 250 six, 3-speed

My car pictures



Edited by MikeB on 11-29-10 10:48 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
models916 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 2833

Age: 63
Loc: Addison, IL
Reg: 05-28-10
11-30-10 09:45 AM - Post#2011586    
    In response to MikeB

I run a 409 with a 700R4, 4:11 rear. Lockup 10 inch 3,000 stall. When you are cruising in D there is not much slip. TH350 and TH400 with a 10 inch 3,000 is very streetable. It takes torque to make the conveter slip. I tried a 12 inch 2800 converter and could not live with it.

Edited by models916 on 11-30-10 09:47 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
60chev 
Contributor
Posts: 105
60chev
Loc: Rotchester, NY
Reg: 01-24-09
12-01-10 03:17 PM - Post#2012182    
    In response to MikeB

Thanx MikeB and all. I will be in the process of ordering parts soon, getting my list together. I want to have the car back together by March of next year ready for the racing season. Already have the motor on my stand mostly apart. Will let everyone on here of progress( may have questions along the way). By the way, my name is Mike B too...
60chev

57 Bel-Air Wagon 350/2004r


 
60chev 
Contributor
Posts: 105
60chev
Loc: Rotchester, NY
Reg: 01-24-09
12-01-10 04:26 PM - Post#2012210    
    In response to MikeB

MikeB, do you think a 106 lsa cam would be better anyways or no? Thanks...
60chev

57 Bel-Air Wagon 350/2004r


 
hutchensce 
Senior Member
Posts: 1980

Loc: Laramie, WY
Reg: 11-02-04
12-01-10 09:23 PM - Post#2012334    
    In response to 60chev

Mike...there's very, very little lope with the 270 Comp in my 383. It doesn't sound stock, but it's not lopey at all. I think I'd need another 6 to 10 degrees to make it really noticeable. My converter stalls at about 2200 behind this motor and it's fine on the street.

In a 383, I think a 2000(ish) stall with a cam of similar specs would be fine in a 350. If you're taking it to the strip though, may as well get a higher stall converter.
Photos and such


 
Wheels56 
Senior Member
Posts: 264

Loc: CA
Reg: 02-17-02
12-02-10 08:26 AM - Post#2012492    
    In response to hutchensce

The Isky cam will lope more because of the 108 LSA and it will have more midrange than the Comp 270 due to the tighter LSA. It will also work better with the 9:1 compression as it will close the intake sooner to build more cylinder pressure and the tighter LSA will help with the weak GM cylinder heads. IMO the Isky 270 with the 108 LSA would be my choice for a 9:1 350. THe 106 LSA will tighten your powerband up a little with more midrange but I think you'll want the extra couple hundred RPM the 108 LSA will give you on the drag strip. Also, keep in mind that your rebuilder 350 may have dished pistions which will be closer to 8.5:1 so you will be limited on cam choice. The 270 cam will probably be as big as you want to go.

Edited by Wheels56 on 12-02-10 08:32 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
MikeB 
Senior Member
Posts: 9473
MikeB
Loc: Plano, TX
Reg: 08-28-03
12-05-10 10:34 AM - Post#2013850    
    In response to Wheels56

I agree with Wheels56.
Real Hot Rods have a Clutch!

1955 210 2dr: 327, Brodix IK180 heads, Jones cam, M20, Wilwood front brakes

1982 C-10 SWB pickup, 250 six, 3-speed

My car pictures



 
Highlander1 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1404

Loc: SE North Carolina
Reg: 08-19-04
12-09-10 12:39 AM - Post#2015502    
    In response to hutchensce

Chad, in your photos, whose rear sway bar kit are you using in the 56? Any clearace issues? Also, like your railroad background. Hard to beat a tri-five -- locomotive combination. Regards, Don

 
This Forum is Sponsored by

bobsclassicchevy.com
Icon Legend Permissions Topic Options
Report Post

Quote Post

Quick Reply

Print Topic

Email Topic

4614 Views
FusionBB
FusionBB™ Version 2.1
©2003-2006 InteractivePHP, Inc.
Execution time: 1.068 seconds.   Total Queries: 15   Zlib Compression is on.
All times are (GMT -0800) Pacific. Current time is 11:50 AM
Top