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 Page 3 of 4 « First<1234
Username Post: General EFI discussion        (Topic#217970)
Doug_F 
Holley Subject Matter Expert
Posts: 4720
Doug_F
Loc: Bowling Green, KY
Reg: 08-20-01
07-20-09 09:18 AM - Post#1738546    
    In response to Scotts

  • Scotts Auto Said:
  • Doug_F Said:
  • Scotts Auto Said:
Doug, if I may be so bold - what's the 411 on the new Holley system???



Well, one in my car just won in the finals this weekend running within .02 as the air cooled and went 9.69 on a hit of dry spray in qualifying. So that is good!

You could look in my car and see it if you were at Beech Bend!

I've gotten a lot done, but still have a lot more to go. The plan is to release the end of this year and show everything at the trade shows this fall. There's a lot of components and features to this system requiring a lot of work and testing.

But moving forward.



In an effort to salivate even further, if you could choose one thing – what is the most beneficial point in your application... I'll understand if your unable to answer as it will not encompass the attributes of the entire system, just a snippet – perhaps???

Otherwise, great news and thanks, when it comes time to see one, I'll open my own hood!




It won't benefit everyone, but let's just say you won't need add on controller hardware to support a lot of different things, for the people that run these things.

Also will have a lot "cool things". Sorry as that is totally vague!

Also will be compatible with more modern engines.

Also (hopefully) a lot of the tuning is much easier.

That being said in many respects EFI tuning can never be completely "easy", unless you bolt in a factory EFI engine and ECU.


Doug
1972 Nova
6.0L LSx, 80mm BorgWarner, 4L80E
9.34@147


Edited by Doug_F on 07-20-09 09:19 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 




Scotts 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1045
Scotts
Loc: McDonald, TN
Reg: 07-20-08
07-20-09 10:52 AM - Post#1738596    
    In response to Doug_F

  • Doug_F Said:
  • Scotts Auto Said:
  • Doug_F Said:
  • Scotts Auto Said:
Doug, if I may be so bold - what's the 411 on the new Holley system???



Well, one in my car just won in the finals this weekend running within .02 as the air cooled and went 9.69 on a hit of dry spray in qualifying. So that is good!

You could look in my car and see it if you were at Beech Bend!

I've gotten a lot done, but still have a lot more to go. The plan is to release the end of this year and show everything at the trade shows this fall. There's a lot of components and features to this system requiring a lot of work and testing.

But moving forward.



In an effort to salivate even further, if you could choose one thing – what is the most beneficial point in your application... I'll understand if your unable to answer as it will not encompass the attributes of the entire system, just a snippet – perhaps???

Otherwise, great news and thanks, when it comes time to see one, I'll open my own hood!




It won't benefit everyone, but let's just say you won't need add on controller hardware to support a lot of different things, for the people that run these things.

Also will have a lot "cool things". Sorry as that is totally vague!

Also will be compatible with more modern engines.

Also (hopefully) a lot of the tuning is much easier.

That being said in many respects EFI tuning can never be completely "easy", unless you bolt in a factory EFI engine and ECU.




Factory ecu and engine - ya - like that's gonna happen - NOT!

Thanks Doug, I knew there would be no way to encompass all the benefits and attributes, just wanted a taste!

Thanks again!!!

NO WARRANTY EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED! I may be wrong, have in the past and will be in the future!


 
Doug_F 
Holley Subject Matter Expert
Posts: 4720
Doug_F
Loc: Bowling Green, KY
Reg: 08-20-01
07-20-09 01:56 PM - Post#1738736    
    In response to Scotts

Where is McDonald TN? Suppose I could look!

Doug
1972 Nova
6.0L LSx, 80mm BorgWarner, 4L80E
9.34@147


 
Scotts 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1045
Scotts
Loc: McDonald, TN
Reg: 07-20-08
07-20-09 02:11 PM - Post#1738751    
    In response to Doug_F

  • Doug_F Said:
Where is McDonald TN? Suppose I could look!



About 11 miles north of Chattanooga 7 miles east of I-75. The new Volkswagen plant is coming in about 4 miles away. It's absolute insanity around here – construction - in an effort to support infrastructure, highways, utilities, etc… More plants, hotels, banks, homes, schools and restaurants’ popping up overnight, crazy stuff!

But again, better busy than looking at the clock!


NO WARRANTY EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED! I may be wrong, have in the past and will be in the future!


 
revheadgl 
Contributor
Posts: 461
revheadgl
Loc: Australia
Reg: 03-26-08
07-21-09 01:44 AM - Post#1739072    
    In response to Scotts

Hi,

Doug,
Will the new box be,

A. A lot more expensive?
B. A fair bit more expensive?
C. A little more expensive?

Happy with what I have, but just curious!!!!

67 Falcon 289, Weiand 174 @ 8.5 psi boost,
Edelbrock Performer RPM Heads, 216/228 0.483/0.480 0.050 112 degrees LSA. Forged pistons 9.0-1, Holley 950-24s system, Ford TFI, Crane HI-6 & LX92.


 
Doug_F 
Holley Subject Matter Expert
Posts: 4720
Doug_F
Loc: Bowling Green, KY
Reg: 08-20-01
07-21-09 03:35 AM - Post#1739095    
    In response to revheadgl

  • revheadgl Said:
Hi,

Doug,
Will the new box be,

A. A lot more expensive?
B. A fair bit more expensive?
C. A little more expensive?

Happy with what I have, but just curious!!!!




I can say much right now but lets just say making something "expensive" is never a good direction. The C950 was an economical system and it won't be at the exact same price point.

That being said, aftermarket EFI isn't cheap by nature as anyone involved knows.

It isn't A....

Doug
1972 Nova
6.0L LSx, 80mm BorgWarner, 4L80E
9.34@147


 
BrianM 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 44
BrianM
Reg: 09-07-08
07-30-09 08:56 AM - Post#1744752    
    In response to Doug_F

Doug,

Can you tell us if it can be uses as a direct replacement for the C950 ECU and harness?

-Brian M.

1968 Camaro, C4 brakes up front, Gen4 Fbody brakes out back, Hotchkis suspension, 406 SBC, Holley StealthRam, Lunati Voodoo 233/241 @ .050, .504/.525, 110/106 LSA, 1.6 rockers, 68cc humpers, 5-speed manual.


 
Scotts 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1045
Scotts
Loc: McDonald, TN
Reg: 07-20-08
07-31-09 09:05 PM - Post#1745692    
    In response to BrianM

It doesn't appear so - as in this thread...

http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?ti...

More specific

http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showpost.php?pos...


NO WARRANTY EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED! I may be wrong, have in the past and will be in the future!


 
revheadgl 
Contributor
Posts: 461
revheadgl
Loc: Australia
Reg: 03-26-08
08-01-09 04:15 AM - Post#1745757    
    In response to Scotts

Let me say now,

This forum would not be what it is except for people like Doug, Scott and Danny.

Keep up the good work! Thanks Guys!

67 Falcon 289, Weiand 174 @ 8.5 psi boost,
Edelbrock Performer RPM Heads, 216/228 0.483/0.480 0.050 112 degrees LSA. Forged pistons 9.0-1, Holley 950-24s system, Ford TFI, Crane HI-6 & LX92.


 
BrianM 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 44
BrianM
Reg: 09-07-08
08-01-09 05:21 AM - Post#1745771    
    In response to Scotts

Wow, how did I miss that?

Thanks for the links!!!!

-Brian M.

1968 Camaro, C4 brakes up front, Gen4 Fbody brakes out back, Hotchkis suspension, 406 SBC, Holley StealthRam, Lunati Voodoo 233/241 @ .050, .504/.525, 110/106 LSA, 1.6 rockers, 68cc humpers, 5-speed manual.


 
Scotts 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1045
Scotts
Loc: McDonald, TN
Reg: 07-20-08
08-01-09 07:32 AM - Post#1745825    
    In response to BrianM

They are easy to miss...

The "search engine" is a great resource, taxing to servers but effective if you use correct keywords.

As for the harness - I would be skeptical if it were the same or retro fit... Sorta - an aerosol overhaul (new paint and decal) and now it's something new?

Abandoning the architecture (harness) implies more features, controls and main board. I doubt it’s profit driven and must have been a very difficult (drives cost up on both ends, labor to end user) decision.

ME THINKS!

NO WARRANTY EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED! I may be wrong, have in the past and will be in the future!


 
Doug_F 
Holley Subject Matter Expert
Posts: 4720
Doug_F
Loc: Bowling Green, KY
Reg: 08-20-01
08-02-09 08:41 AM - Post#1746338    
    In response to Scotts

Bracket racers should be happy with the new piece. I ran two classes yesterday with major hot-lapping and won one and runner-up'd in the other. The week before it ran identical times to the .xxx in the two time trials, dialed .01 down and ran dead on, but went .001 red first round.

Doug
1972 Nova
6.0L LSx, 80mm BorgWarner, 4L80E
9.34@147


 
Scotts 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1045
Scotts
Loc: McDonald, TN
Reg: 07-20-08
08-02-09 10:35 PM - Post#1746860    
    In response to Doug_F

Doug, the consistency was insane - I am stunned! It’s an attribute to your setup as a whole, vehicle, driver, system, etc. Even then, looking at the numbers three out of three as far as I am concerned – totally unbelievable in my book – but the facts ARE in the numbers. It would be hard to distinguish what contributed the most. Taking into account the human element, the system must have be a constant. It provides a small but exciting window of what the future holds for us – the consumer…

If I were a gambler, I would have put money against the third run, the first two could have been a fluke, you proved different...

Just incredible - way to go and hats off to you and Holley!


NO WARRANTY EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED! I may be wrong, have in the past and will be in the future!


 
Scotts 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1045
Scotts
Loc: McDonald, TN
Reg: 07-20-08
08-08-09 12:05 PM - Post#1750231    
    In response to Scotts

Another sliver of information for those waiting on the new Holley release!

From another thread from them that knows - "I wouldn't run the plastic Holley piece. That will be changing shortly."

AND GO VOTE ON SOFTWARE TUNING POLL

http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?ti...

Or you’ll have no one to blame but yourself when asking “I wish this software would allow me to –“

It's not for Holley users only - this sorta applies any tune-able EFI solution, user, tuner, installer, etc??? Check it out.


NO WARRANTY EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED! I may be wrong, have in the past and will be in the future!


 
revheadgl 
Contributor
Posts: 461
revheadgl
Loc: Australia
Reg: 03-26-08
08-20-09 02:31 AM - Post#1757277    
    In response to Scotts

Hi,

I find user names interesting and often wonder where they come from.

For those that are interested, my tag 'revheadgl' came from an aborted attempt at automotive clothing. The name was originally "Revhead Clothing"

After being hacked on the computer, I changed it to Revheadgl and it has just stuck from there.

I am though, a revhead. Never had a slow car and the back ground is motorcycles. I always wanted my car to be faster than my bike but that is like trying to push rope up hill!! Lol,
Glenn

67 Falcon 289, Weiand 174 @ 8.5 psi boost,
Edelbrock Performer RPM Heads, 216/228 0.483/0.480 0.050 112 degrees LSA. Forged pistons 9.0-1, Holley 950-24s system, Ford TFI, Crane HI-6 & LX92.


 
revheadgl 
Contributor
Posts: 461
revheadgl
Loc: Australia
Reg: 03-26-08
09-21-09 03:50 PM - Post#1775831    
    In response to revheadgl

Seen these yet?

The new powerjection III, with the ecu on the throttle body.

http://www.summitracing.com/search/Brand/Professi o...

I couldnt think of a worse place to put the electronics! What odds on early failure?

67 Falcon 289, Weiand 174 @ 8.5 psi boost,
Edelbrock Performer RPM Heads, 216/228 0.483/0.480 0.050 112 degrees LSA. Forged pistons 9.0-1, Holley 950-24s system, Ford TFI, Crane HI-6 & LX92.


 
hoppycamaro 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 35
hoppycamaro
Loc: Nebraska
Reg: 03-06-09
09-22-09 07:28 AM - Post#1776179    
    In response to revheadgl

I agree that a throttle body mounted ecu is not ideal but done right it could be totaly relyable there are alot of engine mounted ecu's on oem cars now a days and some that run fuel right through the computer to help with cooling so done right it could last done poorly it will fail early. but the reduced wiring on a efi convertion realy could help people brige the gap and go efi vs carb on there next fuel system upgrade. Is there anyone on this form that runs proffeional products fuel injection how well do they work or hold up i looked at them strongly before i bought my c950 mpfi but could not find that many reveiws on them or any info so i bought the holley and im happy with it.



 
Bullshark 
Member
Posts: 95
Bullshark
Loc: St. Charles, Mo.
Reg: 06-15-06
10-16-09 09:01 AM - Post#1789252    
    In response to hoppycamaro

This may be old news to some of you, but the major auto manufactures already have working prototypes of ECU's integrated into the air cleaner/ throttle body system. All electronics are on a single Printed Wiring Circuit with flex wiring to external sensors and injectors. Essentially no wire harness except for Power and I/O that is required off engine. Eliminating connectors and heavy unreliable wire cables is the name of the game for reliability and affordability. The ECU is kept cool by the flow of intake air.

Bullshark



 
Scotts 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1045
Scotts
Loc: McDonald, TN
Reg: 07-20-08
10-16-09 09:16 AM - Post#1789262    
    In response to Bullshark

Chrysler's "Lean Burn" in the 70's

http://www.allpar.com/mopar/lean-burn.html

Lee Iacocca said something like "fix it or get rid of it" - they got rid of it...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Iacocca

Basically a mix of old application with new technology (tech * 30 years) - works for me!!!

Additionally air box mounted or in fresh air stream ecm/pcm's are common in many vehicles...

NO WARRANTY EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED! I may be wrong, have in the past and will be in the future!


 
Bullshark 
Member
Posts: 95
Bullshark
Loc: St. Charles, Mo.
Reg: 06-15-06
10-16-09 09:44 AM - Post#1789275    
    In response to Scotts

  • Scotts Auto Said:

Additionally air box mounted or in fresh air stream ecm/pcm's are common in many vehicles...



Very true Scott, but I am referring to much higher levels of integration than mounting circuit modules or boxes in the airflow. Printed wiring circuits are actually embedded, so to speak, as part of the air intake system. Again reduce part count and interconnect.




 
Scotts 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1045
Scotts
Loc: McDonald, TN
Reg: 07-20-08
10-16-09 10:22 AM - Post#1789289    
    In response to Bullshark

Absolutely!!! I didn't mean to distract the intent, simply no comparison. Weakly - that's what I meant by (tech * 30)...

With 40+ years in the industry, one can muse in the simplicity of 1 wire engines! The technologies incorporated in today’s vehicles were sci-fi years ago. Simplicity of self diagnostics, performance and fuel efficiency, among many other attributes are incredible – but I still muse…

NO WARRANTY EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED! I may be wrong, have in the past and will be in the future!


 
vortecman 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 4

Age: 57
Loc: california
Reg: 01-26-10
01-26-10 07:10 PM - Post#1850287    
    In response to Doug_F

Hi, Question about my 1996 chevy p/u ,with the 5.7 vortec scpi injection,how can I tell if it's been updated to the newer mfi set up?I'm the 3rd owner



 
79ZED 
Senior Member
Posts: 253

Loc: Nanaimo, B.C., Canada
Reg: 01-09-02
03-09-10 05:07 PM - Post#1877119    
    In response to vortecman

Just noticed the price of the new Holley Dominator ECU on Summit......

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HLY-554-114/

Start counting your $$$$

John 79Z28


 
Doug_F 
Holley Subject Matter Expert
Posts: 4720
Doug_F
Loc: Bowling Green, KY
Reg: 08-20-01
03-10-10 10:23 AM - Post#1877526    
    In response to 79ZED

Shop around, that is more than they will sell for.

Doug
1972 Nova
6.0L LSx, 80mm BorgWarner, 4L80E
9.34@147


 
Danny Cabral 
Member
Posts: 3447
Danny Cabral
Loc: Connecticut
Reg: 11-03-04
03-10-10 10:37 AM - Post#1877535    
    In response to 79ZED

  • 79ZED Said:
Just noticed the price of the new Holley Dominator ECU on Summit......
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HLY-554-114/


I don't think most people will need the Dominator ECU.
I'm guessing the HP ECU will be Holley's best seller?

May God's Grace Bless You

'78 BRONCO: 508" stroker, TFS heads, Dominator MPFI & DIS, A/C, Lentech Strip Terminator AOD, 3:1 Atlas II, modified Dana 44/60-lockers-4.10s, hydroboost/4-disc brakes, ram-assist/heim joint steering, 4" lift, 35" tires


 
Doug_F 
Holley Subject Matter Expert
Posts: 4720
Doug_F
Loc: Bowling Green, KY
Reg: 08-20-01
03-10-10 01:42 PM - Post#1877629    
    In response to Danny Cabral

And even at that price it is half of what a FAST would cost to run a LS1/4L60E engine and trans. And a lot less than a BS3 as well.

If you don't need all the features that has get the HP as Danny said.

Doug
1972 Nova
6.0L LSx, 80mm BorgWarner, 4L80E
9.34@147


 
Rick_L 
Honored Member
Posts: 27254
Rick_L
Loc: Katy, Tx, USA
Reg: 07-06-00
03-10-10 04:59 PM - Post#1877760    
    In response to Doug_F

The HP is listed on Summit at $975. Isn't that close to what Summit sold the old unit for? I couldn't find the 950 with a search at Summit, they may have already dropped it from their website.

Seems like the HP and the old 950 are "kind of" comparable, if I read the descriptions properly. Recognizing of course that the HP is more modern in terms of H/W and S/W.



 
Steve P 
Contributor
Posts: 128

Reg: 07-13-08
03-10-10 11:47 PM - Post#1877964    
    In response to Rick_L

If I have a 950 go down on me can I replace it with a HP?

Summit have been putting a lot of stuff on Ebay recently, I wonder if they are trying to get rid of the old stuff before the new system is up for sale?

Steve P



 
Danny Cabral 
Member
Posts: 3447
Danny Cabral
Loc: Connecticut
Reg: 11-03-04
03-11-10 03:02 AM - Post#1877980    
    In response to Steve P

  • Steve P Said:
If I have a 950 [ECU] go down on me can I replace it with a HP?


Not exactly, you'll have to replace the wire harness too:
http://www.holley.com/types/HP%20EFI%20-%20 ECU%20&...



  • Steve P Said:
Summit has been putting a lot of stuff on Ebay recently, I wonder if they are trying to get rid of the old stuff before the new system is up for sale?


No, Summit Racing has been advertising on Ebay long before the new Holley system released.

May God's Grace Bless You

'78 BRONCO: 508" stroker, TFS heads, Dominator MPFI & DIS, A/C, Lentech Strip Terminator AOD, 3:1 Atlas II, modified Dana 44/60-lockers-4.10s, hydroboost/4-disc brakes, ram-assist/heim joint steering, 4" lift, 35" tires


 
79ZED 
Senior Member
Posts: 253

Loc: Nanaimo, B.C., Canada
Reg: 01-09-02
03-11-10 06:54 PM - Post#1878442    
    In response to Danny Cabral

If you buy the unterminated harnesses for ignition, injectors, or main wiring do you get the proper connectors for terminating them? Is the main harness already pre-terminated at the ECU end? Do you need a Weather Pack crimper or a Metri-pack?

Thanks!
John

John 79Z28


 




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