Gain extra benefits by becoming a Supporting Member Click here find out how!
Classic Performance Products Classic Parts
Ciadella InteriorsAmerican Auto Wire Classic Industries
Chevs of the 40sDanchuk Catalog
Hellwig Products IncPerformance Rod & CustomEcklers AutoMotive
Nu-Relics Power Windows
Impala Bob's Bob's Chevy Trucks Bob's Chevelle Parts Bob's Classic Chevy



 Page 1 of 4 1234
Username Post: General EFI discussion        (Topic#217970)
Doug_F 
Holley Subject Matter Expert
Posts: 4720
Doug_F
Loc: Bowling Green, KY
Reg: 08-20-01
05-29-09 05:07 AM - Post#1706738    

This post can be for anything and everything EFI related. Have fun. Just be kind as everyone always is. I'm sure we'll learn something.

Doug
1972 Nova
6.0L LSx, 80mm BorgWarner, 4L80E
9.34@147


 




Scotts 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1045
Scotts
Loc: McDonald, TN
Reg: 07-20-08
05-29-09 06:09 AM - Post#1706764    
    In response to Doug_F

All this space - and I have writers block - yeah like that's gonna happen! Back off you guys, it's all mine, mine I tell ya!

Great idea, I admit to running off at the keyboard. The possibility of doing it without guilt or consequence (within guidelines of the board of course), is a wonderful idea.

As revheadgl eluded, perhaps it will give some folks the initiative and comfort of contributing that otherwise would feel intimidated.

The preverbal words from of a party song, “Let’s get it started in here”!


NO WARRANTY EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED! I may be wrong, have in the past and will be in the future!


Edited by Scotts Auto on 05-29-09 06:17 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
ralph47 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2335
ralph47
Age: 67
Loc: new franklin, ohio
Reg: 10-28-08
05-29-09 09:22 AM - Post#1706869    
    In response to Scotts

i have done several TPI car conversions..sadly last one was several yrs ago..and am now doing another..sadly again..i sent all the drawings i had made of the wiring with the last one i sold. am making my own harness...can't remember how i did the park/neutral relay so the computer knows when the car is in park or drive. uses same neutral sw as stock..but uses a relay for the computer

54 Chevy Handyman Wagon
48 Chevy Pick Up
39 Chevy Coupe
62 Olds F85 Cutlass Convertible

http://s370.photobucket.com/albums/oo148/ralph47_ p...


 
Bruces 57 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2373

Reg: 01-03-07
05-29-09 10:22 AM - Post#1706901    
    In response to ralph47

Hello;
Last month's issue of Rod & Custom did an article on economy EFI install added to a 34 Phayton. The article covered pretty much everything. The install consisted of a TBI (kind of like a carb) bolted to an adapter plate bolted to a 4 barrel intake manifold. There was the usual send and return gas lines and a 'custom" harness plus they used a small cap HEI dizzy.
This was supposed to be an economy upgrade but un-fortunately no pricing was mentioned. This up grade interested me as something to put on my daily driven 57 Chevy
When I purchased my 350 for my 57, it came with a TPI set up. To tell you the truth, this set up looked pretty good but to actually install it and make sure all was working properly, especially for someone with little or no EFI experience seemed daunting at least, so I sold that set up. The article I just mentioned seemed that it might be a lot easier to hook up everything and come out with a better result than running an Ebrock 1406.
Anyone got any kind of experience? I know I don't have it as far as producing a correct harness goes. Plus all the "tuning" things to be aware of.
I have read about Mega Squirt but really didn't think that much about it. Most of the ECM and so on in the article was purchased from Howell Enter prises. Basically a harness, computer and a chip for that computer.
This interests me but of course, money is tight now so any economical ways to improve my car would be of interest.
Anyone got any feedback or similar experiences?
(thats a crazy question to ask of Chevy fanatics)

Bruce



 
Danny Cabral 
Member
Posts: 3447
Danny Cabral
Loc: Connecticut
Reg: 11-03-04
05-29-09 11:01 AM - Post#1706922    
    In response to Bruces 57

  • Bruce's 57 Said:
Last month's issue of Rod & Custom did an article on economy EFI install added to a 34 Phayton. The article covered pretty much everything. The install consisted of a TBI (kind of like a carb) bolted to an adapter plate bolted to a 4 barrel intake manifold.


http://www.rodandcustommagazine.com/techarticles/0...

May God's Grace Bless You

'78 BRONCO: 508" stroker, TFS heads, Dominator MPFI & DIS, A/C, Lentech Strip Terminator AOD, 3:1 Atlas II, modified Dana 44/60-lockers-4.10s, hydroboost/4-disc brakes, ram-assist/heim joint steering, 4" lift, 35" tires


 
Scotts 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1045
Scotts
Loc: McDonald, TN
Reg: 07-20-08
05-29-09 11:07 AM - Post#1706926    
    In response to ralph47

  • ralph47 Said:
i have done several TPI car conversions..sadly last one was several yrs ago..and am now doing another..sadly again..i sent all the drawings i had made of the wiring with the last one i sold. am making my own harness...can't remember how i did the park/neutral relay so the computer knows when the car is in park or drive. uses same neutral sw as stock..but uses a relay for the computer



sent you a couple pdf's of ecm and p/n switch... lemmie know if that's what your looking for or how to wire a relay???


NO WARRANTY EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED! I may be wrong, have in the past and will be in the future!


 
ralph47 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2335
ralph47
Age: 67
Loc: new franklin, ohio
Reg: 10-28-08
05-29-09 01:35 PM - Post#1707005    
    In response to Scotts

hey guy..sent you a email..your schematic confirms the wires for me..just need to figure the relay wiring i need to use....the relays them selves..are very simple..it is the configuration

thanks

ralph

54 Chevy Handyman Wagon
48 Chevy Pick Up
39 Chevy Coupe
62 Olds F85 Cutlass Convertible

http://s370.photobucket.com/albums/oo148/ralph47_ p...


 
Doug_F 
Holley Subject Matter Expert
Posts: 4720
Doug_F
Loc: Bowling Green, KY
Reg: 08-20-01
05-29-09 02:02 PM - Post#1707012    
    In response to ralph47

From what I have seen, there are a lot of ways to spend big $$ on stuff, especially EFI. Since I'm not rich or even close to it, the closer I get to $0 for something the happier I am. That being said I try to get the best quality parts I can, and/or parts up to the task at hand. I've seen where paying big $ doesn't mean you get a good part, as well as paying low $ may not mean you get junk. You just have to be informed which is pretty tough.

Maybe we can print some ideas of good examples. Trying to use OEM parts is usually good as the quality and development put towards them usually is a lot higher than aftermarket parts.

Doug
1972 Nova
6.0L LSx, 80mm BorgWarner, 4L80E
9.34@147


 
ralph47 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2335
ralph47
Age: 67
Loc: new franklin, ohio
Reg: 10-28-08
05-30-09 05:04 AM - Post#1707385    
    In response to Scotts

SCOTT, wow..the pvt schematics you sent me are the best...thanks so much..some opened my old man brain back up....others were just plain cool for wiring nearly anything a person always wondered about...

54 Chevy Handyman Wagon
48 Chevy Pick Up
39 Chevy Coupe
62 Olds F85 Cutlass Convertible

http://s370.photobucket.com/albums/oo148/ralph47_ p...


 
ralph47 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2335
ralph47
Age: 67
Loc: new franklin, ohio
Reg: 10-28-08
05-30-09 05:12 AM - Post#1707389    
    In response to Doug_F

i am using a ebay TPI set up..mainly because they are pretty cheap..easy to find..and find any needed parts for..and i think they look good under the hood..i polished the runners etc...

i am using a cleaned up, modified OEM harness...only had a hard time figuring out relay for ecm park/neutral sensing..Scott here sent me the info, and removing all the wires i didn't need..emissions stuff etc...there are a couple of ways to eliminate the VATS programing out of these units..one is to get it "flashed" to your exact specs..several places do it...the other..i still have somewhere here..is to build a little "box" that uses radio shack junk..makes the unit think it has met the VATS key in requirement to start..as you can see..i like the OEM EFI systems..have used OEM TBI units also..actually an easier hook up than the TPI...perfoms as well it seems..just doesn't look as cool. HMMM hope i can find the VATS bypass schematic..if not..any help out there???

Ralph

54 Chevy Handyman Wagon
48 Chevy Pick Up
39 Chevy Coupe
62 Olds F85 Cutlass Convertible

http://s370.photobucket.com/albums/oo148/ralph47_ p...


 
Scotts 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1045
Scotts
Loc: McDonald, TN
Reg: 07-20-08
05-30-09 08:14 AM - Post#1707455    
    In response to ralph47

  • ralph47 Said:
HMMM hope i can find the VATS bypass schematic..if not..any help out there???

Ralph



http://vats.likeabigdog.com/

All possible resistors can be purchased at local Radio Shack on the cheap - 15 variables...

General Motors Key Number
Value (Ohms)

392, 523, 681, 887, 1.13K, 1.47K, 1.87K, 3.01K, 3.74K, 4.75K,
6.04K, 7.5K, 9.53K, 11.8K.

NO WARRANTY EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED! I may be wrong, have in the past and will be in the future!


Edited by Scotts Auto on 05-30-09 08:38 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
revheadgl 
Contributor
Posts: 461
revheadgl
Loc: Australia
Reg: 03-26-08
05-30-09 11:29 PM - Post#1707920    
    In response to Scotts

I looked at heaps of different ways of doing the efi on mine before I actually settled on an engine combo and decided on supercharging.

That pretty much meant that the Holley system was the best for me. Complete, reasonably priced, easy enough to tune(with help of course) and available in enough different combos to cover my expected power output.

I was going to go for a stock type engine at one point and had seriously considered the following systems.

The advantage of this is you do get a complete system that should well. It would be cheaper of course to mix and match your own, but if you have no EFI experience, it may cause you some headaches!



This is from a previous post of mine


Have a look at these guys. They tailor the kit to suit you and have the benefit of using a GM ECU. They do TBI as well as MPFI.

http://www.affordable-fuel-injection .com/index.php...

Mass flo also have a good system. I know a guy over here that has one fitted to his car and its all good. I too would have used this system had I not supercharged my engine. They use the Ford ECU.
MPFI only

»http://www.mass-floefi.com/mass-flo.html«

Also Howell seem to produce a good system also based around the GM ECU. They do MPFI as well as TBI.

»http://howellefi.com/customer/product.php?producti...«

Hope this helps.
Glenn

Affordable EFI in TBI
Howell TBI

67 Falcon 289, Weiand 174 @ 8.5 psi boost,
Edelbrock Performer RPM Heads, 216/228 0.483/0.480 0.050 112 degrees LSA. Forged pistons 9.0-1, Holley 950-24s system, Ford TFI, Crane HI-6 & LX92.


 
revheadgl 
Contributor
Posts: 461
revheadgl
Loc: Australia
Reg: 03-26-08
05-31-09 12:31 AM - Post#1707926    
    In response to revheadgl

Here is a heap of links to EFI related companies.

http://www.msdfuelinjection.com/
http://www.accel-dfi.com/
http://www.fuelairspark.com/
http://sdsefi.com/
http://www.professional-products.com/
http://www.retrotekspeed.com/
http://www.auto-nomics.com/cgi-bin/showresults?q =a... There is some good cheap stuff here (the throttle bodies etc) if he is still in business.
http://www.holley.com/division/Holley.asp.
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/efi /pf_...
http://howellefi.com/customer/home.php
http://www.mass-floefi.com/
http://www.haltech.com/
http://www.motec.com.au/
http://www.microtechefi.com/
http://www.autronic.com.au/
http://www.wolfems.com/
http://www.enginemanagementsystem.com/
http://www.redlineweber.com/
http://www.msefi.com/index.php



67 Falcon 289, Weiand 174 @ 8.5 psi boost,
Edelbrock Performer RPM Heads, 216/228 0.483/0.480 0.050 112 degrees LSA. Forged pistons 9.0-1, Holley 950-24s system, Ford TFI, Crane HI-6 & LX92.


 
ralph47 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2335
ralph47
Age: 67
Loc: new franklin, ohio
Reg: 10-28-08
05-31-09 05:10 AM - Post#1707955    
    In response to Scotts

hey Scott...once again..THANKS..interesting sites there

54 Chevy Handyman Wagon
48 Chevy Pick Up
39 Chevy Coupe
62 Olds F85 Cutlass Convertible

http://s370.photobucket.com/albums/oo148/ralph47_ p...


 
ralph47 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2335
ralph47
Age: 67
Loc: new franklin, ohio
Reg: 10-28-08
05-31-09 05:12 AM - Post#1707957    
    In response to revheadgl

again guys..lots of great info here..i really enjoy reading about the options...i guess one of the things i liked about the GM EFI..no need to worry about tuning..if installed correctly..start and drive..no worries...i have done several..all worked great.

54 Chevy Handyman Wagon
48 Chevy Pick Up
39 Chevy Coupe
62 Olds F85 Cutlass Convertible

http://s370.photobucket.com/albums/oo148/ralph47_ p...


 
ralph47 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2335
ralph47
Age: 67
Loc: new franklin, ohio
Reg: 10-28-08
05-31-09 05:17 AM - Post#1707958    
    In response to revheadgl

hey guy...great list of sources...i should note..i am partial to the TPI system..easy to find and very easy to use...that said...almost all of the others you list will out perform the TPI. TPI limited by runner size and length...throttle body opening sizes....you can massage both..lot of parts out there...but still after spending big bucks..i did it on my 39 coupe..runners,throttle body, injectors etc..most of the after market MPFI and TBI will still out perform it.....RPM power limited..but that 5000 to 6000 is all i run my street cars up to anyway..so it works for me. the BEST thing about Chevytalk is all the great ideas and help..thanks to the original poster..and all the replies.

54 Chevy Handyman Wagon
48 Chevy Pick Up
39 Chevy Coupe
62 Olds F85 Cutlass Convertible

http://s370.photobucket.com/albums/oo148/ralph47_ p...


 
D.Mac 
Senior Member
Posts: 1006

Loc: Ontario Canada
Reg: 03-22-03
05-31-09 09:16 AM - Post#1708066    
    In response to ralph47

'94-'96 B and D body GM cars with the LT1 are, IMO, the cheapest and easiest doner cars out there.
Bolt's in where most Gen 1 reside.
Engine/trans/harness comes out easily without cutting. Leaves you with ~ 8 wires to hook-up including the guages and diagnostic port.
Nylon fuel lines come out easily, and are very versitile. Easy to route on the projrct car.
Good PCM ,tuning and diagnostic support.
Great performance potential.

Dave MacDonald
Ontario, Canada

'66 Impala LT1/C950-,EFI,700R4,(sold 07/2011)
'12 Sonic LTZ, Turbo, M6
'07 Pontiac Solstice GXP
'06 Caddy CTS-V


 
Bruces 57 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2373

Reg: 01-03-07
05-31-09 10:12 AM - Post#1708104    
    In response to D.Mac

Hello;
I looked at the list provided above and didn't see this one which has (I think) everything you need to know. (everything!)
chevythundre.com
Hope it is still up and running.

Bruce



 
ralph47 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2335
ralph47
Age: 67
Loc: new franklin, ohio
Reg: 10-28-08
05-31-09 10:24 AM - Post#1708110    
    In response to Bruces 57

hey D.Mac....that will be my next one..more modern... more performance..and a simple pug n play..no need for laptop etc to set up motor..runs out of the box

and Bruce..www.chevythunder.com

minor spelling error..shows when searching...but you are right about the guy that put that together...a lot of work...i used his sight for a Q&A on my own before i did first TPI..thanks for jogging my memory

54 Chevy Handyman Wagon
48 Chevy Pick Up
39 Chevy Coupe
62 Olds F85 Cutlass Convertible

http://s370.photobucket.com/albums/oo148/ralph47_ p...


 
revheadgl 
Contributor
Posts: 461
revheadgl
Loc: Australia
Reg: 03-26-08
05-31-09 10:45 PM - Post#1708539    
    In response to ralph47

Here is some more interesting stuff, some very nice throttle bodies etc.

http://www.eastcoastparts.com/html/throttle_body.h...
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/lsx-parts-sale /10702...
http://www.verycoolparts.com/Stack.htm
http://www.efisupply.com/inglese_efi.htm
http://www.twminduction.com/Home/Home-FR.html
http://www.kinsler.com/page--Throttle-Bodies --22.h...
http://force-efi.com/stacks.htm
http://www.hilborninjection.com/category.asp?Id=17...

67 Falcon 289, Weiand 174 @ 8.5 psi boost,
Edelbrock Performer RPM Heads, 216/228 0.483/0.480 0.050 112 degrees LSA. Forged pistons 9.0-1, Holley 950-24s system, Ford TFI, Crane HI-6 & LX92.


 
revheadgl 
Contributor
Posts: 461
revheadgl
Loc: Australia
Reg: 03-26-08
05-31-09 11:51 PM - Post#1708550    
    In response to revheadgl

Here are some links to some of the available wideband sensors/controllers.

http://www.aempower.com/ViewCategory.aspx?Category...
http://www.fjoracing.com/products/WBAFR/
http://www.holley.com/types/Commander%20950 %20Wide...
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products.php
http://www.plxdevices.com/wideband.html
http://www.zeitronix.com/Products/zt2/zt2.htm
http://www.widebandcommander.com/
http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/products/air-fuel/faq ...
http://www.compperformancegroupstore s.com/store/me...

And here is a test comparison between some of them. Enjoy.

http://www.paceperformance.com/paceperformance/pdf...



67 Falcon 289, Weiand 174 @ 8.5 psi boost,
Edelbrock Performer RPM Heads, 216/228 0.483/0.480 0.050 112 degrees LSA. Forged pistons 9.0-1, Holley 950-24s system, Ford TFI, Crane HI-6 & LX92.


 
ralph47 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2335
ralph47
Age: 67
Loc: new franklin, ohio
Reg: 10-28-08
06-01-09 05:32 AM - Post#1708607    
    In response to revheadgl

wow guys...all neat sources..again..the chevytalk hits for us

54 Chevy Handyman Wagon
48 Chevy Pick Up
39 Chevy Coupe
62 Olds F85 Cutlass Convertible

http://s370.photobucket.com/albums/oo148/ralph47_ p...


 
BrianM 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 44
BrianM
Reg: 09-07-08
06-03-09 12:18 PM - Post#1710336    
    In response to ralph47

Hi General EFI Folks!

Would anyone happen to be running a StealthRam setup on a 400 cube SBC? I'd like to compare notes....

Thanks!

-Brian

1968 Camaro, C4 brakes up front, Gen4 Fbody brakes out back, Hotchkis suspension, 406 SBC, Holley StealthRam, Lunati Voodoo 233/241 @ .050, .504/.525, 110/106 LSA, 1.6 rockers, 68cc humpers, 5-speed manual.


 
paulm 
Member
Posts: 402
paulm
Reg: 02-17-03
06-03-09 04:17 PM - Post#1710486    
    In response to BrianM

I have a stealthram on a 383?



 
revheadgl 
Contributor
Posts: 461
revheadgl
Loc: Australia
Reg: 03-26-08
06-03-09 07:02 PM - Post#1710584    
    In response to paulm

Here are a few more links I found while researching a couple of years back.
The Ford one is a good one if you use the ford factory style injection.
The Pantera one has a decent description af an Holley C950 tbi installation

http://www.fordfuelinjection.com/
http://www.affordable-fuel-injection .com/
http://www.panteraplace.com/page176.htm
http://efi101.com/

67 Falcon 289, Weiand 174 @ 8.5 psi boost,
Edelbrock Performer RPM Heads, 216/228 0.483/0.480 0.050 112 degrees LSA. Forged pistons 9.0-1, Holley 950-24s system, Ford TFI, Crane HI-6 & LX92.


 
BrianM 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 44
BrianM
Reg: 09-07-08
06-03-09 08:19 PM - Post#1710641    
    In response to paulm

Hi Paul!

Which transmission? Cam? Injector size? Differential gear? Compression?

I'm running a Gen 3 Fbody T5, the cam's in my signature, 36lb injectors and 3.08's. Compression's around 10:1.

I know this thing needs to be fed but I'm not really sure where the O2 map should be. What does yours look like? I'm good on the steady state tune but the transitions are killing me. I've got loads of datalogs that look OK BUT...

Idle drops to ~500 for a half second after engine braking then stabilizes @ the configured 850. very annoying at night when the lights dim. Before I set the "RPM value added to idle where fuel turns on" setting to 8000, the motor would actually stop running. I've set Decel wait time all over the place with no change in behavior. I'm not certain, but even though the ECU is getting it's voltage directly from the battery, it seems to freak out a little when the voltage drops from the alternator during the rpm dip. Let me walk you through this (sorry for the ramble but this is actually helping me)....Cruising along, 55-60 mph, I see a stop sign ahead, off the throttle, in with the clutch pedal...idle drops to 800 or so, less than a half second it stabilizes at 850. I pause a second or two, shift down to 4th, let out the clutch, rpm comes up to about 1800-1900 (nothing crazy), car slows more, rpm drifts down, I push in the clutch, rpm drops to 500-600 for a half second then stabilizes @ 850, quicker than the 4th gear grab, I hit 3rd and let out the clutch, rpm comes up (again, nothing crazy), I give the brakes a tap, rpm drifts down, I push the clutch pedal, rpm drops to 500-600...get the idea?

Also, the logs show I have a lean spike (which I can feel) as I roll back into the throttle after an upshift. Someone could say that would be a fuel map issue, I see where you're coming from, but going through that same area of the map sans the shift, it's fine (?!?!). I've also seen talk about a normal lean spike after a shift in manual trans cars (huh?, what?)


Soooo....What's your take?


-Brian

1968 Camaro, C4 brakes up front, Gen4 Fbody brakes out back, Hotchkis suspension, 406 SBC, Holley StealthRam, Lunati Voodoo 233/241 @ .050, .504/.525, 110/106 LSA, 1.6 rockers, 68cc humpers, 5-speed manual.


 
paulm 
Member
Posts: 402
paulm
Reg: 02-17-03
06-04-09 07:37 AM - Post#1710866    
    In response to BrianM

Which transmission?

2004R

Cam?

Voodoo 60142 solid flat tappet 249/257 .540/.560 108/104 (with 1.6 rockers on the intake)

Injector size?

42lb Ford injectors

Differential gear?

3.73

Compression?

10.5:1

I know this thing needs to be fed but I'm not really sure where the O2 map should be. What does yours look like?

kPa
92---13.50---12.75---12.75---12.75---12.75---12.75---12.75---12.75
84---14.00---12.75---12.75---12.75---12.75---12.75---12.75---12.75
76---14.75---13.25---13.25---13.25---13.25---13.25---13.25---13.25
68---14.75---13.75---13.75---13.75---13.75---13.75---13.75---13.75
60---14.75---14.00---14.00---14.00---14.00---14.00---14.00---14.00
50---14.75---14.00---14.50---14.50---14.50---14.50---14.50---14.50
40---14.75---14.00---14.50---14.50---14.50---14.50---14.50---14.50
30---14.75---14.00---14.50---14.50---14.50---14.50---14.50---14.50
RPM--800-----1200----2000 ----3000----4000----4750- ---5250----5750

I'm good on the steady state tune but the transitions are killing me.

Under light-Mid throttle AFR mine is 13.8-14.0, accomplished more in the fuel map that with AE.

Idle drops to ~500 for a half second after engine braking then stabilizes @ the configured 850. very annoying at night when the lights dim.

IAC minimum position or throttle plates?? I know with my motor if the the throttle is set too far closed when I let off the pedal and the throttle slams shut the idle will drop too far for my liking.

Before I set the "RPM value added to idle where fuel turns on" setting to 8000, the motor would actually stop running. I've set Decel wait time all over the place with no change in behavior.

IMHO, the decel fuel cutoff option is a very low priority. Disable it until you have everything working the way you want it to and then ease back into and find where the motor acts the way you want it to.

...get the idea?

Yup

Also, the logs show I have a lean spike (which I can feel) as I roll back into the throttle after an upshift. Someone could say that would be a fuel map issue, I see where you're coming from, but going through that same area of the map sans the shift, it's fine (?!?!).

There are parts of the fuel map that serve two purposes (depending on your kPa scale) accel and cruise. You have to tune to meet the highest fuel requirement and let O2 comp pull for the lower fuel needs...or rescale your kPa map to try and isolate.

I've also seen talk about a normal lean spike after a shift in manual trans cars (huh?, what?)

I wouldn't accept a lean spot in my tune but I am a bit obseesive/compulsive I guess, LOL!



Soooo....What's your take?

What I do when I get frustrated is disable decel cutoff, go to open loop, etc...try and remove as many variables as you can to try and identify the parameter that is screwing up the program. Sometimes there are just too many things going on all at the same time.




 
Scotts 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1045
Scotts
Loc: McDonald, TN
Reg: 07-20-08
06-04-09 08:52 AM - Post#1710912    
    In response to paulm

Paul,

13.8 - 14.0 if you remember...

Decel fuel cut off, dropping idle too far, stalling - this is POT LUCK on my part, but I have been able utilize them with excellent results. Even with previous cam. It took many tries, but I can have a/c on, let out - decel cuts off, push clutch in, drops no less than 700 rpm and steady's back out at 800. I never had a problem with the automatics... But again, it was time consuming! Have the "jerk" barely negligible.

Danny - lemmie try that again - DANNY - had some excellent advice setting the idle values in the fuel map - building a wall or some such thing and others - don't remember – his advice (among others) is what got it done…

I have installed many of these units, some are easier than others, it is daunting to get all variables... I don't have any idea what the fuel savings would amount to, if it's worth it? But it makes me "feel" like I am saving fuel and I am all that matters to me - I think - what was I talking about again....


NO WARRANTY EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED! I may be wrong, have in the past and will be in the future!


 
paulm 
Member
Posts: 402
paulm
Reg: 02-17-03
06-04-09 09:15 AM - Post#1710927    
    In response to Scotts

  • Scotts Auto Said:
Danny - lemmie try that again - DANNY - had some excellent advice setting the idle values in the fuel map - building a wall or some such thing and others - don't remember – his advice (among others) is what got it done…



You can do that, say your engine idles at 750, make an RPM column at 600 with MORE fuel than the 750...you can even add MORE timing in the spark map in the 600 column. Theory is as the RPM moves lower than 750 it has to climb a "ramp" so to speak so that the farther it moves away the more fuel/spark it gets to push it back to the setpoint. This would be a "two column" idle.

My cam is a choppy SOB...I've had to do some things with timing/fuel at idle to keep it where I want. It seems (IMHO) that the bigger the cam, the further the idle range in which it will idle. I mean a lopey cam moves around in RPM at idle, so...for my cam if the desired idle is 750 and I set the idle column at 800 it will on it's own get above 800 just because of the lopey idle. This causes a problem as when the RPM gets ABOVE my idle column it starts up the fuel/timing ramp towards the off-idle column. In my case it is better to make an idle column of say 850 or even 900 to keep the ECU reading from the idle column instead of the off-idle column when idling.

An example of the above described issue would be watching the data monitor while your engine is idling. You would see the red box move DOWN a step in kPa, possibly DOWN an additional step in kPa and then finally to the right as the engine surges..."L" shaped pattern. This is because the ECU due to the idle RPM is adding fuel/timing (from the off-idle column) which is INCREASING engine vacuum (lower kPa) and then eventually RPM.

In extreme instances you can even add a third idle column ABOVE the idle column with less fuel/timing to help contain the idle...the problem with this is it makes off idle response difficult to tune.

For me...I have a one column idle because off-idle, mid-range and WOT mean more to me than a perfect idle, so I have more resolution there.


  • Scotts Auto Said:
Paul,

13.8 - 14.0 if you remember...



LOL Scott, ya I've only spent a billion hours messing with the fuel map to get it to be in that range...ya I'm a car nerd, LOL!




 
Scotts 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1045
Scotts
Loc: McDonald, TN
Reg: 07-20-08
06-04-09 09:46 AM - Post#1710951    
    In response to paulm

Yes that's what I was talking about - actually I read it from a post Danny was ear deep in so I plugged him. He's has some incredible intuition when it comes deciphering terminologies and what one “really” means.

But as usual, it appears your way ahead of me as you have nailed it – but I still like the way Danny put it better – so hummmmf! (yeeouch)

Guess I look elsewhere in the forums to stir up a mess - since I am unable to get under your skin...


NO WARRANTY EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED! I may be wrong, have in the past and will be in the future!


 




 Page 1 of 4 1234
Icon Legend Permissions Topic Options
Report Post

Quote Post

Quick Reply

Print Topic

Email Topic

63038 Views
FusionBB
FusionBB™ Version 2.1
©2003-2006 InteractivePHP, Inc.
Execution time: 0.539 seconds.   Total Queries: 13   Zlib Compression is on.
All times are (GMT -0800) Pacific. Current time is 10:22 AM
Top