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Username Post: Expert Help needed, Rear End        (Topic#204690)
Rokk 
Lurker
Posts: 13

Loc: Utah
Reg: 12-01-08
12-06-08 05:05 PM - Post#1579126    

Hello everyone, First time poster here, although i have been lurking and reading your forum for quite sometime.

Have a question for you all.

I have a 1971 GMC 3/4 ton 2WD 2500 with 4speed Manual Granny tranny, 8-hole lug with the floating carrier axles in the rear. Leaf springs, pretty much all original truck here.

Needless to say, it looks like the rearend has some issues, so i need to find one to do a swap out with. I dont want to get into the rebuilding thing here, i just need this old truck back up on the road. My question, is:

What model years will interchange here?

i need to have something shipped in here as quick as possible to get this thing going. No shops out here in the middle of no where lake powell. So this will be a in the sand and dirt desert swap out.

Any help on what i can change out with is appreciated. I dont know any info specs on the rearend, other than its got 10 bolts holding the pan on, its not totally round, more oval with some corners, and their is no tag with numbers on it. all i know is its leaking and has lots of slack and thats unacceptable. I do believe this is the original rear that came in the truck.

On another note, Great forum you all have going here, i have spent many a countless hour at night reading the topics and posts.

Until next time,

Thanks,

Bryan
1976 Chevy C-30 Motorhome Fulltime RV Living
1971 GMC C-2500 Heavy Duty 3/4 2WD Pickup All Original Workhorse
(A Continual Project)
They may not be pretty, but its paid for and easy to work on.



 
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raycow 
Honored Member
Posts: 16994

Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
12-07-08 12:45 AM - Post#1579327    
    In response to Rokk

From your description, you have a Dana 60 rear in your truck. These were a lot more common in GMC trucks than Chevys. Coil springs were standard on Chevys through 72 with leaf springs optional. If you ordered the leaf option you got a GMC rear. In other words, most of the Chevys you find will not have the rear you need, so look at GMCs instead.

If you want more choices, measure your spring center distance and then look at 73-87 Chevys because those all had leaf springs. These would be 14 bolt rears and are quite easy to find, but I don't know if the spring spacing is the same as 63-72. That's why you need to measure.

In all honesty, I don't know if it is a good idea to do this by mail order, because of the chance of someone at the other end making a mistake. How far are you from a salvage yard?

Ray
Live more lightly on the planet. Eat lower on the food chain. Eat vegetarians.


 
JimKshortstep4x4 
Chevytalk Moderator & "10th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4501
JimKshortstep4x4
Loc: Muskegon, MI, USA
Reg: 03-28-02
12-07-08 03:00 AM - Post#1579339    
    In response to Rokk

Bryan,

Welcome to Chevy Talk from West Michigan!

Have you looked into having someone rebuild your
differential? Or are shops not in driving distance of Lake Powell?

Jim
Member 65-66 Full Size Chevrolet Club

65 Impala SS, 400sbc, Muncie M-22
66 Impala SS, 396, TH 400
69 El Camino, 350, TH 350
71 Short bed stepside 4x4, 350/TH 350
71 Snow plow, 4x4, 350, TH 350
72 GMC Shortbed, stepside, 427/TH 400


 
LGriffin 
Contributor
Posts: 435

Age: 68
Loc: Gateway to Yosemite
Reg: 04-16-04
12-07-08 07:46 AM - Post#1579392    
    In response to JimKshortstep4x4

Raycow, Has you pointed in the right direct. I have a 68 3/4 ton Chevy with the optional leaf springs. I replaced the rear axle with a 73 to get better gears 3.73 instead of 4.56. The 73 was a direct bolt in except for two problems. I had to either change the angle on the bracket for the brake hose, or use the 73 brake hose. The shocks on the 73 mount one to the front and one to the rear. One used the mount already there. On the other I used a shock mount from 60s truck front A arm. There is a slotted hole in about the right location for the shock mount your GMC might be different(?). I put the shock mount in the slotted hole backed with a fender washer and then welded the washer to the frame. You end up a little short on threads, and it is a real tight fit. I've got about 5-10k miles on it with no problems so far.

Larry
I don't own a vehicle that isn't old enough to drink.


 
Rokk 
Lurker
Posts: 13

Loc: Utah
Reg: 12-01-08
12-07-08 09:35 AM - Post#1579456    
    In response to raycow

Ray,

Thanks very much for getting back to me on this, i do appreciate. Thats great information you shared. I am a 3 hour drive from nearest salvage yard, which would be in grand junction, co. so i will make some calls and see if they either hav an exact match, or something that will fit based upon your information. In the meantime i will get back out there in the dirt and take some measurements as you suggest.

Thank you very much hopefully here in a couple days i will have this all worked out.

Larry,

I am going to be sure and look out for the couple issues you had that you described as well. thanks for your information it just might save me a headache here soon.

Jimk,

The only shop's here are the tire shop and the boat shop, and while i work with these folks, none of them either want or need to be bothered by this, or have the ability.

while i am mechanically inclined, i myself know nothing about rebuilding a rearend and shimming that i hear so much talk about.

if it was just a matter of removing old parts and putting new parts in then yes rebuilding would be an option.

Thanks guys for all the advice and information, i will take and use it all to get something found here and get this going.

I will keep everyone posted as to a result.

Sincerely appreciated.

Bryan
1976 Chevy C-30 Motorhome Fulltime RV Living
1971 GMC C-2500 Heavy Duty 3/4 2WD Pickup All Original Workhorse
(A Continual Project)
They may not be pretty, but its paid for and easy to work on.



 
longhorn_man 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 1931

Age: 40
Loc: Columbus Ohio
Reg: 02-02-02
12-07-08 12:31 PM - Post#1579565    
    In response to Rokk

Wow... I just did a yellow pages search and a google and all that jazz... found it rather hard toswallow that there were no junk yards there.
Amazing.

This is something that in my opinion, I'd have a hard time trusting someone else.
The main 3 things you need to know, the width from leaf spring mounting pad to leaf spring mounting pad, the width from wheel mounting surface to wheel mounting surface, and what gear ratio you want.
If you get a rear out from under a ford of dodge, you'll want the wheels that go with it being that a chevy wheel won't go on it.
you'll also want to keep the info as far as what the rear came out from under. The VIN, make, model, GVW... all that stuff may be needed when you go todo a brake job on it later.

If you weld, or know someone who does, then the mounting points of the shocks and springs won't matter much at all, as they can be moved with a good welder dude.

Don't rule out one ton single rear wheel trucks. If memory serves, the 88 - 89 one ton single rear wheel trucks have the same mounting location/distance for the leafs as our older stuff. That would be close to a drop in and run it rear.
I would also avoid 67 - 72 stuff. The Eaton rear, which is more common, is very out dated and some parts were discontinued decades ago... kinda important when you are seartching for drums that do not exist.
1972 C/10 burb, 68 nose, SLAMMED... 402/TH400/3.07 <--- Chicks dig it!
1970 C/30 Longhorn, GMC nose...Caddy 425/TH350/4.10 one of 1404 built
www.longhorntrucks.freeservers.com


 
Rokk 
Lurker
Posts: 13

Loc: Utah
Reg: 12-01-08
12-07-08 12:33 PM - Post#1579567    
    In response to Rokk

A little update,

As suggested i went out with my tape measure, and measured center of leaf spring mount across to center of other leaf spring mount for a distance of 42 1/2 inches. There is also a raised stamp type number on upper right of differential above the pan with number C-30255 and another number on lower right (as facing the pan) also raised stamp in the casting looks like a "60".

Hope this helps and i will look for something that has the same distance measure.

I am thinking i might crack open the pan and see what extent of damage i can see. the pinion yoke t the drive line is what is sloppy so i am wondring if it might be worth it just to pull the yoke again and drag that bearing out and replace that. probably biting off more than i can chew here. Just a thought.

thanks again
1976 Chevy C-30 Motorhome Fulltime RV Living
1971 GMC C-2500 Heavy Duty 3/4 2WD Pickup All Original Workhorse
(A Continual Project)
They may not be pretty, but its paid for and easy to work on.



Edited by Rokk on 12-07-08 12:44 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Rokk 
Lurker
Posts: 13

Loc: Utah
Reg: 12-01-08
12-07-08 12:42 PM - Post#1579578    
    In response to longhorn_man

Longhorn,

Yes its very remote here, we are a resort and being the slow season there is roughly 45 people here. during peak season there are hundreds of employees on site and a million boat people.

I will pretty much have to go into the big town of grand junction and have a look see at the 10-20 salvage yards they have there till i find what i am looking for.

unless i go out there and tear this thing apart and see if i can get away with putting a new bearing in this to make it run normal. but i fear that if a bearing went out of it up behind the pinion. then its possible the whole rear is trashed.

i will probably at least go out and pull the pan and see what i can see. i hate the thought of this thing just sitting. without trying to do something. but the way the pinion is wobbling now i doubt it would make it 12 miles down the road.

will have to familiarize myself with the components of it, then run the 3 hours to town and search.

thanks again

1976 Chevy C-30 Motorhome Fulltime RV Living
1971 GMC C-2500 Heavy Duty 3/4 2WD Pickup All Original Workhorse
(A Continual Project)
They may not be pretty, but its paid for and easy to work on.



 
longhorn_man 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 1931

Age: 40
Loc: Columbus Ohio
Reg: 02-02-02
12-07-08 02:03 PM - Post#1579641    
    In response to Rokk

one thing I forgot... when swapping in another rear from another make or model, you can expect ti need a special U-joint, and possibly a new driveshaft too. Being you have a 2 piece shaft, that gives you some wiggle room though.
Converson U-joints can be had at any parts house with good parts persons or any driveline shop.
1972 C/10 burb, 68 nose, SLAMMED... 402/TH400/3.07 <--- Chicks dig it!
1970 C/30 Longhorn, GMC nose...Caddy 425/TH350/4.10 one of 1404 built
www.longhorntrucks.freeservers.com


 
Rokk 
Lurker
Posts: 13

Loc: Utah
Reg: 12-01-08
12-07-08 02:19 PM - Post#1579657    
    In response to longhorn_man

thanks for that Longhorn,

I will watch for that scenario.

i went out and tore the pinion out and looked at the bearing there, definately toast. i am scared that i will find more tasty toastiness if i keep tearing down. so i will just stop there.

I talked to one of the local boat mechanics here a while ago, and he happens to be a die hard chevy guy and says he has a few rears laying around. so he will stop by later and take a look at what i got and need here. thats definately a plus. might save me on some shipping at the least.

while remote here, and only living here short of a year now, i still am learning who and what is around here.

Heres hoping.

Bryan
1976 Chevy C-30 Motorhome Fulltime RV Living
1971 GMC C-2500 Heavy Duty 3/4 2WD Pickup All Original Workhorse
(A Continual Project)
They may not be pretty, but its paid for and easy to work on.



 
cdmhenry 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 2324

Loc: Minden, NV.
Reg: 09-14-00
12-07-08 05:53 PM - Post#1579789    
    In response to Rokk

Based on your casting numbers, I think you have a Dana 60 axle. I'll have to check mine to verify & it's not handy to me at the moment.
Google Dana 60 & look for the cover gasket shape. It pretty much identifies the rear. There is also a Dana 61 which has the same gasket, but was used mostly on mid-80s Ford vans.
Every Government Interference In The Economy Consists Of Giving Unearned Benefit, Extorted By Force, To Some People At The Expense Of Others - Ayn Rand


 
Rusty Baker 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 77

Loc: Missouri
Reg: 09-10-07
12-07-08 08:28 PM - Post#1579909    
    In response to cdmhenry

According to a friend of mine, a Ford mechanic, the Dana 61 can only be rebuilt by a Ford dealer because it takes a specialty tool that is not available to anyone else.

 
JimKshortstep4x4 
Chevytalk Moderator & "10th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4501
JimKshortstep4x4
Loc: Muskegon, MI, USA
Reg: 03-28-02
12-08-08 03:06 AM - Post#1580002    
    In response to Rokk

Here is a link to pictures of the different axle covers for the rear ends that may help you ID your axle.

Jim

http://www.coloradok5.com/axleguide.shtml
Member 65-66 Full Size Chevrolet Club

65 Impala SS, 400sbc, Muncie M-22
66 Impala SS, 396, TH 400
69 El Camino, 350, TH 350
71 Short bed stepside 4x4, 350/TH 350
71 Snow plow, 4x4, 350, TH 350
72 GMC Shortbed, stepside, 427/TH 400


 
Rokk 
Lurker
Posts: 13

Loc: Utah
Reg: 12-01-08
12-08-08 10:23 AM - Post#1580170    
    In response to JimKshortstep4x4

  • JimKshortstep4x4 Said:
Here is a link to pictures of the different axle covers for the rear ends that may help you ID your axle.

Jim

http://www.coloradok5.com/axleguide.shtml




Jim,

thanks for that, looks like the dana 60 picture there.


So far no luck finding one looks like i may have to find out whats involved with rebuilding this thing just to get it going.
1976 Chevy C-30 Motorhome Fulltime RV Living
1971 GMC C-2500 Heavy Duty 3/4 2WD Pickup All Original Workhorse
(A Continual Project)
They may not be pretty, but its paid for and easy to work on.



 
Rokk 
Lurker
Posts: 13

Loc: Utah
Reg: 12-01-08
12-08-08 10:53 AM - Post#1580190    
    In response to Rokk

Well My Friends,

Looks like i am going to have to see about putting new parts in this. I have called pretty much every state and salvage yard i can find, the one rearend i did find they wanted so much money for like it was gold, it just might be best to put new parts in this thing and call it good.

Word has it, this can be done while its still mounted under the truck.

Can anyone advise me, What special tools i am going to need.

I pulled the pinion off yesterday and that bearing is having lots of play in it, however i cant seem to get it ut... is it pressed on or something, or do i have to drop the cover and undo something in there first in order to get it out?

I am pretty mechanically inclined, but a rearend assembly is something i never tore into.

I do have the VIN #

I also got the option number for the rear off of the little sticker inside the glove box and the model number.

not sure if they help at all, but here they are.
Model # CE25934
And rear suspension option # 1G7OGV

and then that raised stamp number on the housing on the rear # C-30255


Can anyone point me out as to what number i will need if i call up the parts store and say "I need everything to rebuild this rear"....

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Bryan
1976 Chevy C-30 Motorhome Fulltime RV Living
1971 GMC C-2500 Heavy Duty 3/4 2WD Pickup All Original Workhorse
(A Continual Project)
They may not be pretty, but its paid for and easy to work on.



Edited by Rokk on 12-08-08 11:06 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Rokk 
Lurker
Posts: 13

Loc: Utah
Reg: 12-01-08
12-08-08 02:49 PM - Post#1580357    
    In response to Rokk

Another update,

Well here we are this afternoon, i went out there and jacked it up, pulled the cover, pulled the axles, and took everything out of the housing. have it all sitting on my table now.

On the pinion ring gear, i am not able to see any damage whatso ever. Bearings even look solid. I also got a big old number off of it.
as shown on the stamped number spaces included:
9 17 70 DANA 30360 A3R14 41-10

Also the next part being what i will call the pinion shaft and its bearings, bearings look good, however the gear on the inside end of the shaft that meshes with the pinion ring, is toast. there is an engraved number on the shaft body itself.
J DANA 34017 41-10 A3R28

I dont know what the numbers mean.

But what this all looks like to me is if i can find a new shaft with gear i might be back in business here and put it all back together.

I am thinking someone had been inside of this before and didnt torque down a bolt tight enough. who knows, all i know is when i bought the truck i effectively made it my problem.

The axles themselves look great, the big ball of gears look great, and what not, just the gear on the end of the pinion shaft is real messed up. you all have probably seen worse, but i can definately tell thats where the slack and play was coming from.

Anyway, if anyone knows what all them numbers mean, please let me know. and in the meantime i will call the parts store and see if i can get a new shaft with gear.

Bryan
1976 Chevy C-30 Motorhome Fulltime RV Living
1971 GMC C-2500 Heavy Duty 3/4 2WD Pickup All Original Workhorse
(A Continual Project)
They may not be pretty, but its paid for and easy to work on.



 
Rokk 
Lurker
Posts: 13

Loc: Utah
Reg: 12-01-08
12-08-08 05:16 PM - Post#1580471    
    In response to Rokk

i was just looing through the forum, and founf a thread that has a picture that looks exactly like the rear in my truck. i wonder if perhaps this rear i am dealing with is not original.

here is the link
http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?ti...

What you all think, cause the salvage yards sure are having a heck of a time finding something that should be readily available i would think.
1976 Chevy C-30 Motorhome Fulltime RV Living
1971 GMC C-2500 Heavy Duty 3/4 2WD Pickup All Original Workhorse
(A Continual Project)
They may not be pretty, but its paid for and easy to work on.



 
JimKshortstep4x4 
Chevytalk Moderator & "10th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4501
JimKshortstep4x4
Loc: Muskegon, MI, USA
Reg: 03-28-02
12-08-08 05:28 PM - Post#1580484    
    In response to Rokk

Looks like Tom's Differentials has the parts you need. The small company has been in business for 35 years and he is very helpful. From the markings on the gear you have a 4.10 to 1 ratio,
(41-10, 41 teeth on the ring gear and 10 teeth on the pinion).

Here is a link. His phone number is listed on his web page.

Jim

http://www.tomsdifferentials.com/tomp.htm
Member 65-66 Full Size Chevrolet Club

65 Impala SS, 400sbc, Muncie M-22
66 Impala SS, 396, TH 400
69 El Camino, 350, TH 350
71 Short bed stepside 4x4, 350/TH 350
71 Snow plow, 4x4, 350, TH 350
72 GMC Shortbed, stepside, 427/TH 400


 
Rokk 
Lurker
Posts: 13

Loc: Utah
Reg: 12-01-08
12-08-08 06:01 PM - Post#1580528    
    In response to JimKshortstep4x4

Jim,

most excellent, i just talked to him and he was very helpful with the numbers. even explained that i did not need an entire rearend, just a ring and shaft pinion kit. has what i need in stock. so will take a drive see as he is only 60 miles from my home town and friends anyway. looks like will be in business soon.

dealing with a spicer dana 60 with 4.10 gear ratio here.
1976 Chevy C-30 Motorhome Fulltime RV Living
1971 GMC C-2500 Heavy Duty 3/4 2WD Pickup All Original Workhorse
(A Continual Project)
They may not be pretty, but its paid for and easy to work on.



 
Rokk 
Lurker
Posts: 13

Loc: Utah
Reg: 12-01-08
12-08-08 07:20 PM - Post#1580617    
    In response to Rokk

found out why the salvage yards were having hard time finding a match........

Not the original rear that came with the truck.

not even close. seems this one came out of an old military vehicle. crazyyyy


feel like i have learned so much about this in last couple days my brain is going to explode.

on a better note, chevy guy stopped by this evening and took a look, he has a rearend for it, and will bring it on up so i can put it under it. saves me the headache, and the shipping cost to get something out here in the middle of nowhere.

was hoping to resolve this for less than 600 bucks, but thats what the endeavor is going to cost. but at least for that they will deliver it to the back of the truck where it sits.

thank goodness this ordeal is over.

thanks for all the help everyone,

Will update once i get all this installed.

Bryan
1976 Chevy C-30 Motorhome Fulltime RV Living
1971 GMC C-2500 Heavy Duty 3/4 2WD Pickup All Original Workhorse
(A Continual Project)
They may not be pretty, but its paid for and easy to work on.



 
raycow 
Honored Member
Posts: 16994

Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
12-08-08 08:59 PM - Post#1580677    
    In response to Rokk

Glad to hear you found a rear and could get it delivered, but I am confused about your comment that it's not the original type rear in the truck. After looking at the link you posted, I would say it looks normal for a GMC, but not a Chevy. GMC owners have this problem all the time because a lot of parts people think GMC and Chevy are the same, which they aren't. Most Chevys have the Eaton rear with the round cover, but those trucks also have coil springs. The yards you called are looking at those, and thats why they think yours was changed. If you ordered a Chevy with leaf springs you really would get the Dana (GMC) rear, but Chevys with leaf springs just aren't very common.

Ray
Live more lightly on the planet. Eat lower on the food chain. Eat vegetarians.


 
JimKshortstep4x4 
Chevytalk Moderator & "10th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4501
JimKshortstep4x4
Loc: Muskegon, MI, USA
Reg: 03-28-02
12-09-08 03:15 AM - Post#1580769    
    In response to Rokk

Glad to hear that you are on your way to getting the rear end problem solved!

Jim
Member 65-66 Full Size Chevrolet Club

65 Impala SS, 400sbc, Muncie M-22
66 Impala SS, 396, TH 400
69 El Camino, 350, TH 350
71 Short bed stepside 4x4, 350/TH 350
71 Snow plow, 4x4, 350, TH 350
72 GMC Shortbed, stepside, 427/TH 400


 
cdmhenry 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 2324

Loc: Minden, NV.
Reg: 09-14-00
12-15-08 09:20 PM - Post#1585732    
    In response to Rokk

Rokk,
If you have a usable replacement rear then this won't mean much.
I was thinking that if you had to use the Dana 60 & had to buy replacment ring & pinion, you might consider getting a gear set with a lower number to save fuel.
Every Government Interference In The Economy Consists Of Giving Unearned Benefit, Extorted By Force, To Some People At The Expense Of Others - Ayn Rand


 
Rokk 
Lurker
Posts: 13

Loc: Utah
Reg: 12-01-08
01-02-09 12:43 PM - Post#1597648    
    In response to cdmhenry

Just an update,

Finally got this fixed, went ahead and replaced the rearend out of '68 3/4 ton, with a 14 bolt pattern. everything except one shock mount lined up great. solved this by reworking the mount.

So far so good, drove it 180 miles on the highway and ran down the road quite well.

now i can finally focus on other things and start fxing this thing up. Rebuilt the carb the other day, and the motor purrs great as well as starts right up every morning in the cold.

Thanks for all the advice and i will be lurking in the shadows once again.

Thanks all,

Bryan
1976 Chevy C-30 Motorhome Fulltime RV Living
1971 GMC C-2500 Heavy Duty 3/4 2WD Pickup All Original Workhorse
(A Continual Project)
They may not be pretty, but its paid for and easy to work on.



 
JimKshortstep4x4 
Chevytalk Moderator & "10th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4501
JimKshortstep4x4
Loc: Muskegon, MI, USA
Reg: 03-28-02
01-02-09 05:12 PM - Post#1597799    
    In response to Rokk

Glad to see you have your truck back together!

Jim
Member 65-66 Full Size Chevrolet Club

65 Impala SS, 400sbc, Muncie M-22
66 Impala SS, 396, TH 400
69 El Camino, 350, TH 350
71 Short bed stepside 4x4, 350/TH 350
71 Snow plow, 4x4, 350, TH 350
72 GMC Shortbed, stepside, 427/TH 400


 
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