Farm boy
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Loc: Central California
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10-09-08 12:42 PM - Post#1538403
What camshaft would you use in a stock 265?
Most parts houses list only an anemic .333” lift hydraulic cam for the 265 engine. This was the “low lift” short duration cam installed in the base 162 hp 265. This cam has the flat in the rear journal for the unique 265 lifter oiling.
The Power Pack 265’s, as well as the 2 bbl engines with Powerglide transmissions, were equipped with a higher lift (.373”) and longer duration cam. I don’t believe anyone makes a replacement for the 1956 Power Pack camshaft.
I am thinking of using the common GM #3896929 cam in my 265. This is the stock hydraulic cam used in most SBC engines from the late 50’s through the 80’s. This cam has more lift and duration than even the 265 Power Pack cam. This grind is sold by several manufacturers at very reasonable prices. I hope this cam will make good power and still maintain a stock sounding idle in my 265.
Lift
I (.390)
E (.410)
Duration @.050
I (195)
E(202)
LSA 112º
What do you think?
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 gotta56forme
"8th Year"Silver Supporting Member
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10-09-08 12:57 PM - Post#1538412
In response to Farm boy
My copy of Alan Colvin's Chevrolet by the Numbers is at home. The part number for the power pack camshaft is probably in there. If it is, perhaps googling the part number will come up with a cam company/grind that is a duplicate or 'near' knockoff. Just a thought... I can look up the part number for you tonight, if you like...
Scott/Gotta56forme
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 Thadd
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10-09-08 01:22 PM - Post#1538421
In response to gotta56forme
I am sure that most "stock" small block cams will work without giving you any problems. Most later small block stock cams would be an improvement over a 265 cam. The one that you listed sounds similar to the stock 300 horse 350 cam.
I bet that there are a hundred guys on chevy talk who would give you that old one that is under their work bench for the cost of shipping.
Don't forget to grind the slot in the rear cam bearing so you will oil the lifters properly
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Old_Longboarder
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10-09-08 01:34 PM - Post#1538429
In response to Thadd
Don't forget to grind the slot in the rear cam bearing so you will oil the lifters properly
Better than grinding the slot, remove the rear cam bearing and connect the oil holes together. After that, be sure to use '57 283 or later lifters. It's a much improved oiling system to the top end.
"The most precious jewels you'll ever have around your neck are the arms of your children."
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Thadd
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 10-09-08 01:53 PM - Post#1538446
In response to Old_Longboarder
I knew that 
But when it is 10 O'clock at night, you don't want to be pulling cam bearings (if ever !!!) when you are trying to get it back together the next day...Unless you have a rotisserie and a couple of 6 packs of cervesa with Junior taking the pictures :>)
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gotta56forme
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10-09-08 05:37 PM - Post#1538578
In response to Thadd
According to Colvin's book, the highest hp '56 engine came with a mechanical lifter camshaft and produced 240 hp - part no 3734077. The lift was .404I and .413E, both with a duration of 287 for each.
Now what is interesting is the smaller lift camshaft you listed above is associated with two hp levels: 162 & 205 - part no 3704212. The higher lift one you mentioned (.373, part no 3728779) has only 170hp assigned to it in his chart.
Scott
Edited by gotta56forme on 10-09-08 06:00 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Gene_Schneider
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10-09-08 05:51 PM - Post#1538604
In response to gotta56forme
The 1956 Power Glide 170 HP engine and the power pack 205 HP engine was a one year, one of a kind camshaft. I would suggest using the 929 cam which is very simular and changing the oiling as necessary.
This cam will give a smooth idle and good low and mid range power. The only problem is the valve could hit the pistons if the engine is over-reved. The original 205 HP pistons did not have the valve reliefs cut into the top of the pistons. The 1957 power pack engines did not have them either and if the engine was over -reved the valves would hit the pistons, the keepers would fall out, and the valves drop in and the engine would blow. This was not common on PG cars but common on sticks that were reved out to the end through the gears.The 1957 dual 4 bbl and FI cars had notched pistons as did replacement blocks and all 1958 and up pistons and blaocks. Also the 1957 and up 283 valve springs would be required.
| ChevGene
1934 Master sedan
1939 Master DeLuxe Town Sedan
1950 Styline DeLuxe Power Glide
1957 Nomad 283 PG
1963 Corvair Convertible |
Edited by Gene_Schneider on 10-09-08 05:58 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Farm boy
Contributor
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10-09-08 09:34 PM - Post#1538764
In response to Gene_Schneider
I am sure that most "stock" small block cams will work without giving you any problems. Most later small block stock cams would be an improvement over a 265 cam.
Thadd - This is what I was thinking. A little more cam should help a short stroke engine like the 265.
Now what is interesting is the smaller lift camshaft you listed above is associated with two hp levels: 162 & 205 - part no 3704212. The higher lift one you mentioned (.373, part no 3728779) has only 170hp assigned to it in his chart.
Scott - Thanks for looking those numbers up for me. It is a little confusing because everything I have read says the 162 hp engine got the low lift .333” cam while the 170 &205 hp engines got the .373” lift cam.
The 1956 Power Glide 170 HP engine and the power pack 205 HP engine was a one year, one of a kind camshaft. I would suggest using the 929 cam which is very simular and changing the oiling as necessary.
This cam will give a smooth idle and good low and mid range power. The only problem is the valve could hit the pistons if the engine is over-reved. The original 205 HP pistons did not have the valve reliefs cut into the top of the pistons. The 1957 power pack engines did not have them either and if the engine was over -reved the valves would hit the pistons, the keepers would fall out, and the valves drop in and the engine would blow. This was not common on PG cars but common on sticks that were reved out to the end through the gears.The 1957 dual 4 bbl and FI cars had notched pistons as did replacement blocks and all 1958 and up pistons and blaocks. Also the 1957 and up 283 valve springs would be required.
Gene - The -929 cam is what I will go with. I will also be replacing the pistons with new Sealed Power #233P cast flat top pistons which have four valve reliefs. Hopefully the valve reliefs in these new pistons will provide enough clearance for a little extra valve lift. I will check for interference with a soft Tootsie Roll (in the wrapper  ) on top of a piston before I button it up for good.
What are the pros and cons of keeping the stock lifter oiling? Should I machine a flat on the new cam journal and use a rear cam bearing with two holes or should I modify the block to provide full oil pressure to the lifters? Obviously both methods provide oil to the lifters but which one is better?
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Old_Longboarder
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10-10-08 08:12 AM - Post#1538946
In response to Farm boy
The latter is better. Use '57 or later lifters after making the modification.
The lifters don't get full pressure all the time, just the oil gallery. Lifters receive their squirt of oil when they are in the down position in the block.
"The most precious jewels you'll ever have around your neck are the arms of your children."
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 4dr 57
"6th Year" Silver Supporting Member
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10-15-08 03:44 AM - Post#1542562
In response to Farm boy
No new info, just a, WOW  , what a great Post and info!
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Rick_L
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10-15-08 09:34 AM - Post#1542717
In response to Farm boy
I tried to research what engines up through the 60s used the "929" cam a few months back and came up a bit short. I'm very confident of the answer, just couldn't find anything to back it up.
Rest assured it is a very mild cam and will work fine in your 265 once you make the correct oiling modifications. And it will idle smoothly.
As for the lifters, you probably aren't going to find the 265 lifters anyway, unless you want to spend too much time and money.
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Gene_Schneider
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10-16-08 07:00 AM - Post#1543348
In response to Rick_L
The 929 came changed part numbers in about 1967-mid year. It continued to be the same cam. Note that it was used in everything from a 283 with a 2 barrel to a 327 300 HP and more.
| ChevGene
1934 Master sedan
1939 Master DeLuxe Town Sedan
1950 Styline DeLuxe Power Glide
1957 Nomad 283 PG
1963 Corvair Convertible |
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Rick_L
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10-16-08 07:05 AM - Post#1543349
In response to Gene_Schneider
Gene, that was the point of contention - whether the 300 hp 327 engines from 62-65 used that camshaft. I am pretty sure they did, and you apparently agree - but I could not find authoritative information that clearly said so.
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557B210
Contributor
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Loc: Jacksonville
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10-20-08 05:28 PM - Post#1546469
In response to Rick_L
Rick and Gene...GM Performance Parts catalogue lists p/n 12364051 as a "replacement for factory p/n 3896929 w/300 HP and 327-ci camshaft"... Hope this helps.
david aka POPS
55/57 2DR B210 |
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Gene_Schneider
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10-20-08 07:21 PM - Post#1546576
In response to 557B210
History of the "929" camshaft.
The first use of the cam was in 1957. It began life as part #3733431. It was used in 1957 185,220, 245 and 250 HP engines. Thats all the way from a single 2 barrel to dual fours and F.I.
It continued on and was used in 1963 and up 250 and 300 HP engines as well.
In mid-1967 the PART NUMBER changed to 3896929.
Was used in 1968-72 307 engine, 1968-69 327, 1967-1975 350 engines all except special high performance engines....which would have been the 340 HP 327, etc.
A cam with different timing and duration replaced it in 1976 for emission reasons.
Was also used in the first small block 400 engines.
| ChevGene
1934 Master sedan
1939 Master DeLuxe Town Sedan
1950 Styline DeLuxe Power Glide
1957 Nomad 283 PG
1963 Corvair Convertible |
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CJS57
Frequent Contributor
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10-21-08 04:40 AM - Post#1546752
In response to Gene_Schneider
What modern cam could be used to replace that cam, in a stock 283 powerpack, that would increase horsepower below 5500 rpm but also not decrease torque anywhere in the range?
1957 Belair 2Dr Hdtp, 58,000 original miles, original never rebuilt 283 engine, 245hp, Dual Fours, Tremec TKO 600 5-speed, 3.70 gears, AACA Senior in 1985
previous trifives:
1955 Belair Convt
1956 210 2dr Sdn
1957 Belair 2Dr Hdtp |
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dmystix
Member
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Loc: NE PA
Reg: 05-19-02
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11-04-08 09:12 PM - Post#1557265
In response to Farm boy
FB
Are you hell bent on hydraulics??
If not , buy a new set of feeler gauges and an .097 !! Off the top of my head from my late 60s JR. STOCKER and tri-five st racers, 40 yrs ago! I don't post much, just sittin around , lamenting the election, so far!! and ran across this.
929 is a great, broad spectrum camshaft, but your 265 is at the bottom of the spectrum. If you want a 929, contact Bullett and they will tweak whatever version of the 929 you would like, they do Stocker grinds, along with Comp and others.
Gotta remember this off the shelf stuff was designed with the thinking that a 327 was/is a SMALL engine!!!
Don
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1949er
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Loc: western nc
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05-22-12 05:06 PM - Post#2228755
In response to dmystix
It is well known in WNC, that a guy bought a 327-300hp chevelle in 1965 to keep his friend from losing it while his money came thru an estate...
The buyer also had a 65 chevelle 327 high performance ordered for his self but the friends car came in first.
This 327-300 stock chevelle never lost a drag race to gto's, corvette's, 442's and others for 2 full years at the quarter mile strip....needless to say...when his ordered car came in...his friend was forced to take the second chevelle, which did not out run the 300hp one....it still is talked about in this town by ol time drag racing folks....
PS....the "little" motor put the big blocks back on the trailer headed home...just like the "little motors did last sat at Shadyside dragway...
Edited by 1949er on 05-22-12 05:09 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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 6-bangertim
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05-23-12 02:09 AM - Post#2228851
In response to CJS57
CJ, tale a look at a 3/4 grind Mellings - just a tad more lift and duration than the 929 cam, smoth idle. We used one in 283 I put together for my dad's '65 truck, would stay up with most 350's between stoplights - he had a ball with that lil' motor! Of coarse, a 500 Carter and Edelbrock manifold helped a little too. 
I'd talk to Jerry at SCHNEIDER CAMS. I see a couple of cams that might work, depending on your rear gears. Maybe you could bogie up a stock Q-jet intake (bigger inside) to mount a WCFB, port-match to the heads. A trained eye might spot the manifold, but I bet most would pass it off as the '57 stocker! 
- Tim
Too Poor to Restore...My Nifty 150!
Proud owner of MISS NOVEMBER - 2011 Tri-Five Calender
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65327
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05-23-12 04:34 AM - Post#2228866
In response to Rick_L
I have a 65 327 (275hp) and when I changed out the cam over the winter, it had the GM 3896930 cam in it. Thats the smae as the 3896929 cam isn't it?
Edited by 65327 on 05-23-12 04:35 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Gene_Schneider
Ultra Senior Member
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05-23-12 08:39 PM - Post#2229160
In response to 65327
YES
| ChevGene
1934 Master sedan
1939 Master DeLuxe Town Sedan
1950 Styline DeLuxe Power Glide
1957 Nomad 283 PG
1963 Corvair Convertible |
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55Nomader55
Forum Newbie
Posts: 27
Reg: 01-07-04
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05-31-12 07:18 AM - Post#2231788
In response to Gene_Schneider
I have a 265 dual quad camshaft that uses Solid lifters. I beleive it was rated at 240 HP.
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f.i.57chevynut
Frequent Contributor
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06-08-12 09:04 PM - Post#2234982
In response to 55Nomader55
The part number for the 240hp cam should be (last 3) 077 (078 casting number if it's an original GM production cam.) GM replacement cams had the number stamped in over grinder marks like the replacement 151 350hp 327 cams(152 stamping). For a little info on the old posts, the 431 part number '57 and later cam had the casting number 3732798, .398 lift both intake and exhaust. The casting mark is an elongated diamond, same as the 929 (930 casting number).
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