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 Page 1 of 2 12
Username Post: Common Mistakes and tips        (Topic#177647)
PhatOne 
Senior Member
Posts: 514
PhatOne
Loc: Dallas, Tx, USA
Reg: 12-13-01
12-21-07 02:29 PM - Post#1324126    

i would like to start a sticky of common mistakes that we make. so at one glance you can get some quick info. i will start with what i have on my list. and yes i have learned these the hard way.

1. cam break in needs to be done with only the outer spring on a multi valve spring set up.

2. oil pump primer needs to have the lower part to block off the oil galley passage to get oil to both sides

3. fuel pump rod has a threaded hole that needs to be plugged on the block to keep oil from leaking out.

4. use thread sealant on head bolts to keep water from wicking up. these holes are all into water jackets on SBC

5. Torque patterns and numbers are important to prevent warpage and leaks.

6. when installing a cam the dot to dot line up method puts the motor 180 out from the number 1 firing position.

7. Never use old flat tappet lifters on a new cam or new lifters on old cam. wear patterns are already established and the cam lobes will wear off.

8. if removing a cam with flat tappet lifters the lifters must go back on the lobe they came from.

9. set timming with the vacuum advanced un hooked

10. a plug on the tail shaft to plug into in place of the drive shaft will keep you from wearing 3 qts of fluids when removing the tranny (may leave out if wife is helping for entertainment purpose)

11. the cork ends on a intake gasket set are junk. use a 1/4" bead of high temp silicone instead.

12. silicone needs time to skin over (about 10-15 mins) before installing intake to get a good seal

13. roller lifters can be reused on a new roller cam if the rollers are smooth and roll without rough friction spots when rolled

14. you can check for vacuum leaks by covering the carb top and see if the idle raises. if it raises when blocking off the top of the carb you have a vacuum leak.

that is all i have for now




 




grumpyvette 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts: 17142
grumpyvette
Age: 70
Loc: FLORIDA USA
Reg: 03-16-01
12-21-07 02:58 PM - Post#1324144    
    In response to PhatOne

old post that fits here

these are by far the most comon ways I see to screw up an engine build,

(1)BEFORE starting, any engine build do the EXTENSIVE & DETAILED research NECESSARY, and make a list of the necessary parts and machine work that will be mandatory, to accomplish your goal,AND NEVER BUY parts that don,t exactly match that LIST no matter what (DEAL)you get, on other parts ,STICK WITH the parts list you made BEFORE starting your engine build combo.
its those little changes to the combo that so frequently screw it up!
in most cases those (DEALS)are on parts that didn,t work worth $%^^ on someone elses combo and they are trying to recoup some of thier wasted cash
(2)
get an engine stand, and some large air tight plastic containers for parts, make a list,check off the parts as you get them, DON,T RUSH IT, accumulate the necessary parts and don,t change your goal in mid build.
(3)
work SAFELY
make contacts, join clubs, help others, learn skills, but stay on course.
(4) read the darn instructions FIRST then ask questions, and if you do the research first youll have fewer questions

If there's a Corvette/hotrod club in your area , JOIN IT,!
if theres only a hotrodders club, JOIN IT,!
you don,t need to like all the members,odds are good that about 30% know far less than you do,or are no help at all, 30% are much more skilled,than you are, but your there to share skills and knowledge, LEARN FROM THEM, and HELP, become familiar with the tools, take the time, and help each other, its a two way street, don,t expect help if your not willing to help others,etc.
ask some of the members for suggestions and help and BE WILLING TO HELP WITH THIER PROBLEMS, ITS A LEARNING PROCESS

thats a valid suggestion.....you may also want to go to the local tracks DRAG RACE AND CIRCLE TRACK carry a large pad and pen and ask for contacts, clubs,suppliers,club info, etc. make friends and ask the faster guys with the better looking cars , what machine shops and garages/mechanics they would suggest, when you get in over your head. in many cases they will know who the scam artists and rip off garages are and who does good dependable work at reasonable rates, but its been my experiance that the best thing you can do is join a local hot rodders or corvette club and between the members contacts and your own resources, YOU will be able to do , and should do,most work your self with some help and knowledge from the guys you make contacts with, in your local clubs, no one but YOU will do QUALITY work and take the time on the details like YOU will on YOUR CORVETTE/HOTROD


keep in mind that theres very few things a decent machine shop and a semi skilled corvette/hotrod owner with a few friends can,t easily fix,theres a first time for every job, don,t get intimidated, you can more than likely do new things correctly, ESPECIALLY if they are willing too take the effort too research the problem , then adjust or replace the parts that are causing the problem, theres nothing mystical or really difficult, but youll need to know what your doing, and what needs testing and or replaceing and that may take research or some investment in tools and learning test procedures, don,t be in awe, theres not a darn thing you can,t learn to do!
youll need basic mechanics tools and having 4 good 12 ton jack stands

Ill add these tips

(1) do EXTENSIVE research FIRST, before....... buying parts.... or starting a modification, that INCLUDES making a detailed parts list and researching , the sources, cost, manuals etc. IE FIND OUT whats necessary to do the job, and what results youll expect before you start

(2) ITS a HUGE advantage to have the correct tools, things like engine cranes, diagnostic test equipment, welders,lifts, etc. may seem like a big expence thats not dirrectly moving your project forward, but there NECESSARY in some cases and ALWAYS make the project go faster and easier than trying to do without them.

(3) work SAFELY, if you could get hurt doing something, chances are very good that you will eventually find out exactly WHY you should have done it the safe rather than the fast/easy way, if you don,t think it thru and use the correct tools and precautions

(4)ITs almost ALWAYS better to have several friends help, on a project, having two or more guys thinking things thru improves your chances of getting it done correctly and safely,and keep in mind ,its always best to do your projects after helping a more experianced guy do something similar on his car so you have some experiance doing it, thus be ready and available to help your buddies withn thier projects and don,t avoid helping so you won,t get dirty, or have some free time thats used on other guys cars vs yours...in the long run it pays big to help others

(5)ask questions and be sure you understand the answers, KNOWING what your doing before you start is a huge advantage

(6)take pictures, label wireing, put small parts in labeled ziploc bags and take notes, use the manuals, and internet, and if something won,t fit or looks wrong research rather than forcing it with a bigger hammer

now I got asked,
"what do you do, who do you call when your about to tackle a job youve never done before?"
now most guys sub out jobs to the dealer or a corvette shop when they get into areas they may not be familiar with,but I do ALL the work on my corvettes for TWO good reasons, first I could NEVER afford the shop rates and I can NEVER trust the quality of work many shops do, now ILL be the VERY FIRST GUY IN LINE to ADMIT Im in WAY over my head at times! but Ive always been able to research the processes, tools, and skills and do the work, or find someone too teach me the skills eventually, youll NEVER learn new stuff if your not willing to tackle new projects and get in way over your current skill level....besides it USUALLY requires buying LOTS OF new tools and meeting new friends so you can,t hardly lose!


READ THIS LINKED INFO

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...


IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!


Edited by grumpyvette on 11-14-13 01:12 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
grumpyvette 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts: 17142
grumpyvette
Age: 70
Loc: FLORIDA USA
Reg: 03-16-01
12-21-07 03:19 PM - Post#1324165    
    In response to grumpyvette

[LIKE THE ONE AT THE TOP OF THE PAGE UNDER TIPS?

old post that fits here

let me give you some hard learned advice,that took awhile to sink in,something I was forced to learn years ago, MACHINE SHOPS AND MANUFACTURERS LIE AND MAKE MISTAKES.... DON,T assume they or ANYONE ELSE is telling the truth on clearance issues, or PARTS or MATERIALS USED, UNTILL YOU VERIFY they are correct YOURSELF after checking EACH and EVERY spring and valve, rocker and valve guide ETC.

chances are good they are telling you the truth and youll probably be fine, KNOW exactly WHAT your doing or ask for advice and measurements, NEVER ASSUME some part out of the box is correct and can be just bolted into place

but you sure won,t be the first guy to be told one thing and find something differant to be true after checking, take the time and effort to VERIFY clearances, spring rates and degree in the cam, and check clearances once its assembled.



be sure you check clearances carefully, a mistake can and will damage the engine, DON,T GUESS,KNOW WHAT THE CLEARANCES ARE, ESPECIALLY SPRING BIND,VALVE TO PISTON,ROCKER TO ROCKER STUD, and retainer to valve guide clearances, CAM LOBE TO ROD, and anything or place thats suspected of being close I still use the strips of modeling clay about 1" square and .2" (two tenths thick) but one thing everyone forgot to mention so far is that you need to spray the piston and valve and clay strips with WD-40 to ensure the clay does not stick to any parts, otherwise the clay will tend to stick to the valve and piston allowing them to push the clay between them durring the compression of its surface by the valve (exactly what its there for) and PULL ON THE SURFACE of the clay as the valve moves away durring seperation (because the clay tends to stick ever so slightly as the parts pull away from each other if you don,t)which tends to give a false slightly greater than correct clearance measurement
most people tend to tell me Im wrong about that untill they try it both ways :grin: yeah the differance is usually minor but five to 10 thousands differance is not rare if the parts are clean and dry versus sprayed with an oil mist , first check to make sure that you are measureing correctly, many times the valve actual has more clearance in the flycut clearance notches,or only the very edge of the valves head and the edge of the notch are close and very minor cutting with a tool fitted in a valve guide will clear the problem and the valve has more clearance than measurements taken from the pistons upper surfaces, and that the head gasket thickness and valve train geometry are correct,
check if changing the cam retard/advance or installed possition can be changed to increase the clearance to 0.100 minimum on both the intake and exhaust valves (MOST LIKELY TO WORK WITH THE LEAST PROBLEMS)

add a thicker head gasket? ( BUT THAT TENDS TO RUIN QUENCH AND DOES NOT TEND TO BE A GREAT CHOICE ON MOST ENGINES)

look over the isky site they and MANY OTHER HOTROD TOOL SUPPLY SHOPS SELL TOOLS THAT APPEAR TO BE EXTRA LONG STEM VALVES WITH CUTTERS ATTACHED TO FIX THAT PROBLEM

http://www.iskycams.com/pdfcatalog/PAGE17.pdf

heres a few things that should always be checked on an engine build

heads
are the pushrods perfectly strait?
do the pushrods flow oil?
rocker studs/guides torqued correctly?
do the head bolts have washers under the bolt heads? are they the correct length for the cylinder heads in use?
have the heads been pocket ported?
combustion chambers unshrouded?
intake ports gasket matched"
are the valve guides cut to the correct length?
are the heads pocket ported?
is the retainer to valve guide clearance correct?
are the valve guide oil seals installed?
is there valve spring seats installed?
inner damper springs installed?
spring bind height checked? (to exceed max valve lift by .050 min.)
oil return holes cleaned of casting flash?
were steam holes in heads necessary?
were the spark plug threads of a installed spark plug extending into the combustion chamber?
rocker slot to rocker stud clearances ?
retainer to valve guide clearances?
spring bind height checked for the correct spring pressure?
valve lash/preload ?
are the valve springs the correct tension,height?dia.
keeper the correct angle? style? size?
valve seats the correct angles?
valves back cut?
valves the correct length, stemsthe correct diam.
strait?
rockers the correct ratio?
were the valve to valve guide clearances checked?
were the heads milled?
did the head gasket overlap the bore?
what are your valve train clearances?
is the rocker arm geometry correct!
chambers CC,ed
port work..(some steps optional)

(1) open throat to 85%-90% of valve size
(2)cut a 4 angle seat with 45 degree angle .065-.075 wide where the valve seats and about .100 at 60 degrees below and a .030 wide 30 degree cut above and a 20 degree cut above that rolled and blended into the combustion chamber
(3)blend the spark plug boss slightly and lay back the combustion chamber walls near the valves
(4)narrow but dont shorten the valve guide
(5) open and straiten and blend the upper two port corner edges along the port roof
(6) gasket match to/with intake and raise the port roof slightly
(7) back cut valves at 30 degrees
(8) polish valve face and round outer edges slightly
(9)polish combustion chamber surface and blend edges slightly
(10) remove and smooth away all casting flash , keep the floor of the port slightly rough but the roof and walls smoothed but not polished.
(11) use a head gasket to see the max you can open the combustion chamber walls
(12) blend but don,t grind away the short side radias


block
is the oil pump pick-up mounted 3/8"-1/2" from the oil pan floor/
is the windage screen mounted about 1/8" from the rotateing assembly/
is the pick-up brazed to the pump body?
has the oil pump relief piston in the oil pump been checked for free ,easy movement? clearance? spring tension?
is the oil pump pick-up tube inserted too far into the oil pump body,(binding the gears)
has the block been clearanced for the rotating assembly?
has the block been aline honed?
is the crank strait?
are the damper install keyway and threads ok?
counter weights clearanced?
MAGNAFLUXED?
OIL PASSAGES CLEANED?
GALLERY PLUGS INSTALLED CORRECTLY?
has the cam to rod bolt clearance been checked?
piston to valve clearances checked?
piston to bore clearances?
TRUST BEARING CLEARANCE?
what were the piston ring to slot clearances?
RING GAPS?
were the rings all checked individually for end gap in the cylinders they were used/installed in?
were the rings checked to make sure the correct side faced up, and the correct ring was in each groove?
what were the back clearance on the rings?
were the oil ring expanders carefully fitted for correct drag?
were the oil ring scraper ring rails checked for end gap?
total cam lift and remaining clearanceS?
WAS THE CAM DEGREED IN? and did you right down the piston to valve clearances after it was installed?
were the connecting rod too cam lobe clearances checked?
main bearing clearances?
what is the main bearing run-out clearance
piston to head clearance? (QUENCH?)
head gasket to coolent holes checked?
magnets installed?
rod bolt to block clearances?
what tq reading is necessay to spin the crank with no rods attached? (should be under 10 lbs)(under 40ft lbs ABSOLUTE MAX with all the pistons installed)
are the rod bolts and main caps torqued correctly? (rod bolts checked with a bolt stretch gauge?)
did you check the block for a strait main cap alignment?
what size journals and what were the bearings edge to filet clearance??
are the journals checked for finish and run-out/tapper?
did you use moly lube to assemble?
correct bearing crush?
did you pre-lube before start-up?
did the distributor gear fit the cam gear precisely?
was the distributor oil flow mod done?
was the correct style distributor gear used?
did you check the piston to piston pin bores for fit and clearance?
did the piston pins to snap ring clearance seem overly tight?
if they are pressed pins were they correctly matched and checked for free movement in the pistons?
was the engine ballanced?
cam button installed?, and lock plate installed?
were the rods resized? checked for parrallel bores/were the rods strait?
piston valve clearance notchs correctly located on the pistons? edges smoothed?
were the rods checked for length?
is there a few thousands clearance on the oil pump drive shaft AFTER the distributors bolted down?
did you install a steel collar on the oil pump drive shaft?
was the rod to piston pin side clearance checked? (at 4 places seperated bye 90 degree spots)
does the oil pump drive shaft mid section clear the block with the pump installed?
whats the starter to flywheel gear clearance?
is the pilot bearing to trans imput shaft clearance ok?
is the front motor mount bolt to fuel pump pushrod clearance ok? did the fuel pump pushrod move easily/
are you possitive the pistons were installed with the correct valve relief in the correct location?(eiieeiie) were the pistons installed with the correct side facing forward/
what torque values were used on all fasteners/ were they the correct length and type bolts?
were the bores honed with a torque plate in place?
was the cylinder finish correct for the type rings used?
was the oil pump itself checked for free spin and clearance AFTER THE PICK-UP WAS INSTALLED?
was the cam drive checked for free rotation and drag/
were the oil passage plugs drilled for extra oil flow?
Is the water pump you installed DESIGNED to rotate in the dirrection ITS going to be spinning with the BELTS installed like they are, remember there ARE waterpumps designed to rotate in either but not BOTH dirrections
were the lifter bores checked?
cam to timing cover clearance?
cam journal to cam bearing clearances?
was the cam journal run-out checked?
was the cam degreed in or just lined up useing factiory index marks?
has the rod and windage screen to oilpan clearnce been checked?
does the dipstick & tube clear the windage screen?
was the cam lobes/LSA/LIFT CHECKED?
is the deck square/level?
whats the cross hatch hone angle?
what grit hone was used? is it correct for the rings used?
are all the threads clean/clear?
brass freeze plugs installed?
block painted?
a few things to check

are the connecting rods installed with the beveled edge facing out on each pair with the bearing installed with the bevel facing out on both the lower and upper rod bearings also?

are you using beveled bearing shells that match the cranks throw bevels?

what are the bearing clearances? (are they the same checking at 90.120.160 degrees from the first measurement?}

what are the connecting rod side clearances?

is the crank strait? has it been turned undersize? if so...on ALL the rods? on ALL the mains? or on ALL the BEARINGS JOURNALS OR ONLY SOME?

whats the TRUST BEARING CLEARANCE?

is the piston side clearance correct?

are the pistons installed in the correct cylinders? (intake and exhaust notches correctly located to match the cylinder head)

are you POSSITIVE each main cap is in the correct location and FACING THE CORRECT DIRRECTION?

did you use MOLY assembly lube?

did you check EACH INDIVIDUAL RING ON EACH PISTON for ring gap clearance,AND that the rings fit the piston ring slots correctly? are any rings installed in the wrong ring slots (2nd ring in top slot ETC,)or upside down

do the rings have back clearance?

were the cylinders CORRECTLY HONED?

is the cam drive binding?

does the crank contact the windage screen?
does the dipstick tube or dip stick touch the crank at any point?

is the oil pump /cam gear binding?

did you check that the oil pump mounting bolt does NOT contact the back surface of the rear main BEARING under the main cap?

is the block warped, checked carefully?,was it line honed?


are the piston pins centered? do the pistons rotate thru an arc with little resistance?

are there any lock pins, spirolocs, tru-arcs contacting the cylinder walls?

are you sure the bearing shells are installed correctly and the locating tabs are in the correct slots?
are they the correct bearings for the application? or did you just assume the part guy knew what he was doing?
did you MEASURE or GUESS, did you at least use Plastigauge and a torqure wrench?


did you check EACH AND EVERY journal for tapper and roundness

did you get the rotateing assembly ballanced???

IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!


Edited by grumpyvette on 12-14-08 03:53 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
BrianEsser 
BANNED
Posts: 7383

Age: 42
Loc: North Star, Ohio
Reg: 06-30-01
12-21-07 03:38 PM - Post#1324192    
    In response to grumpyvette

Grumpy would you mind if I added that to my site?



 
grumpyvette 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts: 17142
grumpyvette
Age: 70
Loc: FLORIDA USA
Reg: 03-16-01
12-21-07 03:50 PM - Post#1324204    
    In response to BrianEsser

not a bit, Im very glad to help. please just leave a reference as to where it came from

IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!


Edited by grumpyvette on 12-21-07 03:58 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
BrianEsser 
BANNED
Posts: 7383

Age: 42
Loc: North Star, Ohio
Reg: 06-30-01
12-21-07 04:15 PM - Post#1324229    
    In response to grumpyvette

Absolutely!



 
grumpyvette 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts: 17142
grumpyvette
Age: 70
Loc: FLORIDA USA
Reg: 03-16-01
12-31-07 08:05 AM - Post#1331050    
    In response to BrianEsser

heres one that drove a buddy nuts for awhile


he installed the old pushrod guide plates from stock heads on his new aftermarket heads, he needed to drill out the stud mount holes to get them to seat on the heads yet it never occured to him that they might be the reason the rockers were binding slightly and working at a slight tilt, everything (functioned)but he was having frequent problems, after installing the correct guide plates things ran far smoother.
he had a second problem with the valve spring retainers barely contacting the rockers body, this was cured by swapping to smaller retainers and beehive springs, but could have been cured with minor machine work clearancing the rockers, it took him awhile to find the source of the aluminum dust in the oil, but a look at the underside of most of the rockers should have pointed to that source easily(yeah CHECKING DURRING ASSEMBLY WOULD NOT HAVE HURT HERE EITHER)

IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!


Edited by grumpyvette on 12-31-07 08:10 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
grumpyvette 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts: 17142
grumpyvette
Age: 70
Loc: FLORIDA USA
Reg: 03-16-01
01-11-08 07:11 AM - Post#1340181    
    In response to grumpyvette

HOW to find a decent machine shop

THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT SO DO THE HOMEWORK & TAKE THE TIME AND EFFORT!

THATS SIMPLE
GO TO THE LOCAL DRAG STRIP with a PAD and pen, ask every guy with a car running 11 seconds or faster
(1)WHO WOULD YOU AVOID IN A MACHINE SHOP
(2)WHO WOULD YOU SUGGEST IN A MACHINE SHOP
take notes


keep in mind your not looking for the guys that will make your car FAST as much as your looking for who can be trusted NOT to screw up your parts, and follow instructions on repairs and mods you’ve selected to do ,and those machine shops where the machinist will take the time and effort to advise you and do the job correctly and you also need to know who is doing sub-standard work, and should be avoided, that’s why YOU NEED TO ASK both questions and in that order

(1)WHO WOULD YOU AVOID IN A MACHINE SHOP
(2)WHO WOULD YOU SUGGEST IN A MACHINE SHOP
take GOOD notes, collect business cards if you can

and remember many guys who have slower cars than the 11 second bracket generally are using mostly bolt on and go parts with little use for a quality machine shops skills
that’s EXACTLY why I do all the work possible on my cars and engines....WHY I’ve collected thousands of dollars in tools and done years of research...
I got soooooooo... tired and pissed off from dealing with scammers, thieves and morons who were in business too collect money from the CLUELESS masses of guys that won’t or don’t take the time and effort to find out what actually needs to be done and exactly how its supposed to be accomplished
and finding out that a huge percentage of the mechanics/garages and machine shops were at least partly staffed with guys who knew less and cared FAR less about doing the job correctly than I could ever comprehend, If your going to BE in business you might THINK you’ll want to build a good reputation and look for repeat business, but all to frequently they are in it for a quick buck and screw the results or customers

I’ve seen machine shops throw ALUMINUM cylinder heads in a CAUSTIC SODA bath to clean them, I’ve seen MORRONS try too charge me too torque plate hone a block, when they didn’t even know what a TORQUE PLATE WAS or OWN ANY that fit that family of engines, I’ve seen guys try to beat piston pins out of rods, guys who think a valve job is simply slapping grinding compound on a valve and using a drill to lap the valve into the seat, guys that charge for degreeing in a cam who don’t own a degree wheel or a dial indicator and think aligning dots on the cam drive is degreeing in a cam,.....I could go further but you get the IDEA, LEARN and DO as much as you can yourself, collect the tools and manuals you need, and join a few clubs and find the knowledgeable few guys that do their own work rather than pay exorbitant prices to shops and take their chances... you’ll be way ahead!

keep in mind the three most comon screw ups I see
(1) not having a well thought thru plan and parts list, OF MATCHED PARTS

(2)getting side tracked ,buying "DEAL" parts that don,t fit your PLAN OR ARE NOT ON THE LIST

(3)dealing with morons, scam artists & incompetants at machine shops


IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!


Edited by grumpyvette on 01-11-08 07:14 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
grumpyvette 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts: 17142
grumpyvette
Age: 70
Loc: FLORIDA USA
Reg: 03-16-01
01-28-08 06:17 PM - Post#1353225    
    In response to grumpyvette

heres a common mistake Ive made in the past and again recently


never loan out your tools , if you have any hope of getting them back in decent condition, if at all

IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!


Edited by grumpyvette on 01-18-16 08:44 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
danam 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1368
danam
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-15-04
05-15-08 07:30 AM - Post#1433416    
    In response to grumpyvette

Make sure you put the head bolts back in the correct places!

[ insert witty comment here ]


 
BrianEsser 
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Age: 42
Loc: North Star, Ohio
Reg: 06-30-01
05-15-08 12:04 PM - Post#1433604    
    In response to danam

  • danam Said:
Make sure you put the head bolts back in the correct places!





Bet you won't do that again huh!




 
grumpyvette 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts: 17142
grumpyvette
Age: 70
Loc: FLORIDA USA
Reg: 03-16-01
05-26-08 03:47 PM - Post#1441541    
    In response to BrianEsser

I constantly see guys who get involved in mods to thier cars who either don,t understand that things seldom go as planned or that even understand that even if you know what your doing that the suppliers and machine shops seldom work to your schedual, and guys who buy project cars with zero idea as to the parts they are getting in that car or thier condition,or guys who then acctually think they can use the car as transportation...yet still race the car on a moments notice

your at a distict dis-advantage if you have zero idea what components were used in your engine, theres three routes to go,

(1) if it runs good just drive it and don,t worry about it

(2) you can disassemble the engine and carefully identify what you currently have so you know exactly what you have (see#1) and then if you want to make changes you know what needs changing and what you can keep

(3)find or buy a second engine or at least the major components, assemble it with a well thought thru plan, parts list and goal, while you drive the current combo(see#1) and once you have everything assembled with matched components you spend some long weekend swapping engines and drive train components, (this has the huge advantage that you have a fall back option if the new combo doesn,t meet your expectations as you can always return to the current combo in a single week ends work (see#1) yet you can potentially have a far more aggressive engine combo that kicks butt and takes names, and your not screwed for weeks or months at a time if something breaks if you race the car, and can make changes on your serious engine without truely compromiosing your cars value as transportation, and you can choose to keep or sell the expensive parts seperately from or with the car should you ever seak to sell the vette.

Ive always suggested the THIRD option is the best, having at least two engines is the best route if your into tinkrering and racing your corvette!thats why I currently have six engines I own in the shop, in various configs, I can get the vette to perform as I choose simply by taking my time while I build, modify or test drive the vettes optional engines as I build the test engine and swap it out for a few weeks or months of testing ,I can even rebuild or slightly change the basic transportation engine if I choose too while IM driving one of the other test engines, just remember one engine needs to stay pretty basic and dependable while on the other(S) you can let your imagination and budget run amuck as you see fit

yes theres two basic flaws to that option,
(1) YES ,you need a garage or place to store and work on the spare engine, and it helps tremendesly to have a second car, (a small pick-up trucks ideal so you can transport parts to the machine shop easily, and get to work on days when the promised parts don,t arrive or the machine shop doesn,t get the work done as they assured you they would.)

(2)YES it takes a bit more money up front at first, but in the long run its almost always cheaper and easier on your wallet, and the vette spends more time acctually in drivable condition rather than down waiting for parts or machine work to be done



IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!


Edited by grumpyvette on 05-26-08 03:53 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
grumpyvette 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts: 17142
grumpyvette
Age: 70
Loc: FLORIDA USA
Reg: 03-16-01
09-05-08 08:51 AM - Post#1515532    
    In response to grumpyvette

Cam Break-in Procedure

• Have a high quality service manual available, such as the factory service manual, or the vehicle specific manuals published by Chiltons, Motors, or Haynes. You will need these for the basic information regarding engine disassemble and reassemble along with the torque settings for the various fasteners.

• Read and understand the manual completely, along with these instructions before you begin working. We highly recommend you also have the assistance of a knowledgeable friend to assist you, especially during the initial fire-up and break-in period.

In addition to the normal installation procedure, installing a performance camshaft requires you to check for several extra items to insure long life and optimum performance.

• New Lifters Are A Must- There is no such thing as a good used lifter! Any flat faced lifter establishes a wear pattern almost immediately with the cam lobe it is riding on and cannot be used on any other cam lobe, let alone a different cam. Should you have a need to disassemble the engine, make sure you keep the lifters in order so they go back on to the exact same lobes.

• Valve Spring Pressure and Travel- We highly recommend purchasing the matching valve springs recommended in our catalog. This insures you will have the proper pressures, both closed and open, and sufficient travel to get the maximum rpm, performance and life from your new cam.

• Piston to Valve Clearance- While many performance cams will work just fine with stock pistons, there are many factors that effect your engine and the clearance available. Things such as factory tolerances, normal machine work such as head and block surfacing, aftermarket components such as cylinder heads, higher ratio rocker arms, etc. all effect your engines ability to handle a performance camshaft.

• Valve Train Interference- In addition to valve spring travel and piston-to-valve clearance, a commonly overlooked area is that of retainer to seal clearance. The other common area of interference is rocker arm to stud clearance along with rocker arm travel. The best way to check these is by physically opening both a intake and an exhaust valve on each cylinder head to the gross lift of the cam plus and additional .030". It is easiest to do this by pressing down on the rocker arm with one of the many tools available. Do not simply rotate the engine to the maximum lift point for a given valve. This does not work when engines are hydraulic lifter equipped, or even allow any margin of safety when you are using a mechanical lifter cam.

• Valve Adjustment- The easiest way to insure proper adjustment is to adjust the rocker arms as you install them, one cylinder at a time. Adjust the intake valve as the exhaust valve is just starting to open and adjust the exhaust valve when the intake valve is almost closed. It is simplest to do this with the intake manifold off and watching the lifter’s movement.

• Hydraulic Lifter Valve Adjustment- All engines, regardless of manufacture, require correct valve adjustment. Some engines, such as Chevrolet V-8’s, are equipped with stud mounted rocker arms can easily be adjusted to compensate for changes incurred during engine assembly. Never just torque the rocker arm into place and assume that the lifter preload will automatically be correct. Various engine manufacturers use multiple length pushrods, shims, and spacers to compensate for changes in preload. Hydraulic lifters cannot compensate for all changes. Ideal lifter preload is .020" to .080". Do not attempt to fill the lifters full of oil prior to installation. They will fill automatically once started and manually filling them makes adjusting the preload a difficult task.

• Mechanical Lifter Valve Adjustment- Adjusting mechanical lifters should be done the same way as outlined above, one valve at a time. For an initial setting, we recommend .003" to .005" than listed on the cam’s specification card. Once broken in and with the engine fully warmed up, re set the rocker arms to the cam’s specification sheet.

• Installation Lubricants- All flat faced (non-roller) camshafts require the use of high pressure lubricant supplied with your Erson cam on the bottom of the lifters, the lobes of the cam and on the distributor drive gear. Do not use this lube on the tips of the pushrods, the sides of the lifters or on the rocker arms. Use a quality oil when installing roller tappets.

BEFORE YOU TURN THE KEY

• Fill All of the Engine’s Fluids- Using a minimum of a SAE API SD, SE or better fresh clean mineral based oil, fill the engine to the proper level. Do not use synthetic oil during break-in. Fill the coolant system and follow the instructions on purging air from the system. With carburetor equipped engines, fill the carburetor to insure fuel is available immediately. Make sure that the ignition timing is properly set to insure immediate starting, without excess cranking of the engine.

• Pre-Lube the Engine- Using a oil pump priming tool such as those available from Mallory, spin the engine’s oil pump until you see pressure on the gauge or have oil at the rocker arms. Do not attempt to prime the engine using the starter motor!

• Proper Ventilation- Make sure that you do not start the engine without good airflow. That means have the overhead garage door open and the exhaust vented to the outside. If you have any doubts about sufficient airflow to the engine, push the car out of the garage to make sure the radiator can draw in plenty of air. Having a fan to blow fresh air through the garage is a plus.

• Exhaust System- If at all possible, start the car with a muffled exhaust system hooked up and operational. It makes it much easier to hear what is going on.

• Resist the Urge- Take a minute before you try to start the engine for the first time and double check that you are ready to go. Don’t take any short cuts or leave parts such as fan shrouds, air cleaner, wire looms, etc. off. Clean up the are around and especially under your vehicle. Pick up your tools and wipe up the floor so you can easily spot even a minor leak.

• Be Prepared- Have extra coolant or a hose handy, clean rags, tools for tightening clamps, connections, etc. just in case. They need to be in place to make sure you have an uneventful break-in of the camshaft.

WHEN THE ENGINE STARTS

• Have a Helper- Now is the time for a helper. They can check the coolant level, check for oil and fluid leaks, and proper operation of underhood accessories. Air pockets in the coolant system are common so make sure the recovery bottle is checked and filled as necessary. You cannot count on the temperature gauge. Temperature gauges are only accurate if the sensor is submerged in coolant and will not give an accurate reading if in an air pocket.

• Do Not Idle the Engine- As soon as the engine starts, raise the rpm to 2,000 rpm. You should also constantly vary the RPM between 2,000 and 3,000 RPM for the first 20 minutes. This is the only way to insure proper lubrication during this critical period since the camshaft to lifter contact area relies almost exclusively on oil splash from the crank and connecting rods. Make sure that you run the engine for a full 20 minutes using this procedure. It will seem like forever, but it is one of the most important steps to insure long, dependable performance.

Once Break-in is Complete- Drain and replace the engine oil and filter with new, fresh oil and a new filter. Recheck for any fluid leaks and check all fluid levels. If you installed a mechanical lifter style camshaft, flat faced or roller style, the valve adjustment should be rechecked at this time with the engine fully warmed up. Hydraulic lifter equipped engines should not require any readjustment.

Proper maintenance is important for any vehicle. Frequent oil changes, with a new filter is one of the easiest ways to insure your vehicle will deliver the performance you want for many long happy miles.


ID ADD, USE a GOOD MOLY BASE ASSEMBLY LUBE AND A HIGH ZINC CONTENT OIL AND SOME G.M. E.O.S. TO THE OIL

MARVEL MYSTERY OIL is a good high detregent oil designed to aid valve train and rings ETC. cleaning, I almost always add about 10% marvel mstery oil to my engines, but if your running flat tappet lifters Id point out that many current oils are designed for roller lifter engines so Id sellect an oil thats designed for the older design with the higher zinc content, and adding a can of E.O.S. to the oil and moly assembly lube on the lifters and cam, sure won,t hurt on that first break in, if your breaking in the engine in your driveway, have a running hose and a fan handy, water running thru the radiators cooling fins and a fan blowing air helps prevent over heating, have a timing light and USE IT, check your fluid levels and watch your gauges

GM’S RECOMMENDED CRATE ENGINE START-UP PROCEDURE
Print this page out and check off boxes below (in the printed copy) when each step is completed.
Step Box
1) Safety first! If the car is on the ground, be sure the emergency brake is set, the wheels are chocked, and the transmission cannot fall into gear. Next verify that all hoses are tight and that both the radiator and radiator over flow jar/tank are full and have been filled with the proper anti-freeze and water mix.
2) Before starting your engine for the first time, add one pint of engine oil supplement ( EOS¹) to the crankcase oil and then check the oil level. Once this has been done, prime the oil system with an oil pump primer tool. Make sure number 1 cylinder is on TDC compression stroke, and install the distributor.
3) Adjust the distributor timing roughly by hand for a quick start up and smoothest idle possible.
4) When the engine first starts, verify that the engine rpm is at a safe level and that the timing is set near or at 30° before top dead center (BTDC). Run the engine speed between 1,500 and 2,500 RPM’s, varying the engine speed up and down with-in this range, to prevent overheating of the exhaust valves and the exhaust system. This should be done with no-load on the engine and for the first 30 minutes of operation.
5) After the first 30 minutes of the engine running, set the ignition timing according to the timing specifications. Now would be a good time to check thoroughly for leaks.
6) Adjust the carburetor settings, if necessary.
7) Drive the vehicle with varying speeds and loads on the engine for the first 30 miles. Be sure not to use a lot of throttle or high RPM.
8) Run five or six medium-throttle accelerations to about 3,800 RPM (55 to 60 MPH), then letting off in gear and coasting back down to 20 MPH.
9) Run a couple hard-throttle accelerations up to about 3,800 RPM (55 to 60 MPH), then letting off in gear and coasting back down to 20 MPH.
10) Change the oil and filter with recommended oil (10w30SG in most cases) and filter.
11) Drive the next 500 miles normally, without high RPM’s (below 3,800 RPM), hard use, or extended periods of high loading.
12) Change oil and filter again.
13) Your engine is now ready for many happy cruising miles!
Note¹: EOS P/N 1052367 can be used any time during the life of the engine.
Technical Note: This procedure has been corrected and improved from the original GMPP procedure by GILBERT CHEVROLET.


sitting with no air other than the fan moving air thru the radiator is bound to run a bit hotter than on the road, anything under 220F is normal /expected under those conditions.
I run a water hose thru the radiators cooling fins when testing under those conditions., on the street it should run fairly consistantlly in the 180F-190F range with a 180F T-stat.
in many cases an ADDITIONAL TAURUS electric fan from a salvage yard can be installed on the other side of the radiator to run off a dash switch or sensor that will provide additional cooling when needed.(price varies but its usually very reasonable from salvage yards)

http://forums.hybridz.org/attachment.php?attachmen...

or



190F-210F is ABOUT NORMAL,for driving temps, and nothing to worry about, adding a seperately mounted TRANSMISSION COOLER if you have an auto trans is usually worth a 10-15 degree drop in the coolant temp,MINIMUM, if the current trans fluids cooled in the lower radiator, adding an 8 qt baffled oil pan is usually good for an additional 7F-10F degrees reduction in oil temp alone
A great deal of the heat is transfered to the oil and trans fluids long before the radiator and coolant sees it,routing the hot trans fluid to an aux cooler and adding a high capacity oil pan significantly reduces the heat the radiator needs to transfer from the coolant to the air flow thru it.
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autof...

IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!


 
fritz1990 
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 6514
fritz1990
Age: 56
Loc: Kansas
Reg: 02-16-03
09-05-08 03:53 PM - Post#1515856    
    In response to grumpyvette

Grumpy, The new part number for the GM EOS is 88862586. Yoau can buy it here cheaper than at the stealer:

http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/results.cfm

Regards, Jeff

1998 K1500 6.5 Coal burner
1965 C10 with 498 BBC AFR Heads
1964 C10 Ran 348W for 6 years, now SBC.

Corvettes owned: '74 '77 '78 L82 Silver Anniversary, 2002 LS1

Don't have a nervous come together!

http://picasaweb.google.com/fritz199090


 
grumpyvette 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts: 17142
grumpyvette
Age: 70
Loc: FLORIDA USA
Reg: 03-16-01
09-14-08 08:38 AM - Post#1522059    
    In response to fritz1990

THE cam gear rotates exactly once for each two times the crank rotates,the cam gear lines up at the 12 oclock crank and 6 oclock cam gear orientation when the #6 cylinders on the compression stroke, rotate the engine one complete revolution and the cranks again at 12 oclock but the cam gears index mark is now at 12 oclock, indicating the #1 cylinders at the compression stroke, you use the 12/6 index to install cams simply because its easier to align correctly ,visually, but you need to rotate the engine to the 12/12 orientation before dropping the distrib back in, the distrib won,t fully seat unless the oil pump drive shaft seats up into the distib gear, as you remove the distrib the helical gear interface tends to turn the pump drive shaft slightly, you can use a long flat tip screw driver to turn that back to the correct location and with a bit of practice youll learn to gauge the amount the rotor rotates as it seats into the cam gear.



The CLOYES true roller style is vastly superior to the factory link belt design




how come its 180 degs out of phase?
I get this question all the time, well here’s something I see lots of guys don’t understand, ONCE YOUVE INSTALLED A CAM WITH THE TIMEING MARKS YOU MUST ROTATE THE CRANK 360 DEGRESS BEFORE DROPPING IN THE DISTRIBUTOR, while its true that if the, timing marks are positioned so the crank is at 12 o,clock and the cam gear is at 6 o,clock that the cam lobes will be in the position that fires #6 cylinder that HAS NO EFFECT AT ALL (on finding TDC,) for aligning the degree wheel with TDC,or THE timing tab pointer, for degreeing in the cam, the piston passes thru TDC TWICE in every firing cycle once on the firing/power stroke and once on the exhaust stroke, the cam rotates at exactly 1/2 the speed of the crank so to make it easy to line up the marks they install it with the marks at the closest point 6/12 for easy indexing, rotate the engine 360 degrees to the #1 TDC power stroke and the crank gear will still be at 12 oclock 12/12 but the cam will be at 12 o,clock also, rotate another 360 degrees and your back where you started. its simply easier to index the cam at the point where the index marks align closely. look at how the cam lobes themselves open the valves when the cam is just installed the #1 cylinder valves are slightly open and the #6 are closed per "Lunati" ‘’YES YOU ARE RIGHT - WHEN CRANK IS AT TWELVE AND CAM IS AT SIX THEN #6 CYL IS FIRING AFTER YOU LINE UP YOUR MARKS AND INSTALL GEAR THEN ROTATE YOUR CRANK ONE REVOLUTION AND THEN DROP THE DIST. IN - AT THAT POINT





[url]http://boxwrench.net/specs/chevy_sb.htm[/url]


look here





drop the distrib in with the rotor pointing at the #1 cylinder, and YEAH! it physically possiable to get the distributors rotor to point at any place you want it too by changing the oil pump drive shaft alignment with a large flat blade screw driver while the distributors out of the engine and thats easily changed, but to do it correctly,you want the rotor to point at the #1 cylinder on the compression stroke, so pull the #1 plug, get a large ratchet/socket on the damper and put your finger over the open plug hole and slowly rotate the engine by hand in its normal rotational dirrection untill you see pressure build under your finger as the rotor approaches #1 cylinder location on the distributor base which you should have marked as its supposed to be in dirrect alignment between the distrib and the number 1 cylinder on the engine, remember the distributor and cam gears are heilical and the rotor turns as it seats so compensate slightly. and the rotor should be just coming into alignment as pressure builds under your finger, once thats done re-install the distrib cap and plug and use a timing light to set the timing, you normally want about 6-12 degrees BTDC at idle and watch it advance to about 37 degrees as the rpms build to about 3000rpm

IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!


Edited by grumpyvette on 12-14-08 04:07 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
grumpyvette 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts: 17142
grumpyvette
Age: 70
Loc: FLORIDA USA
Reg: 03-16-01
11-26-08 09:43 AM - Post#1571904    
    In response to grumpyvette

If you were local it would be easy to diagnose, but lets start with the basics

whats the COMPRESSION TEST reading for each cylinder?

HOW did you adjust the valves?

is there water or crud in the gas or fuel filter?

CAN you post detailed pictures of EACH spark plug?

whats your FUEL PRESSURE?(does it stay steady as the rpms build?)

HAVE you verified the throttle blades in the carb and linkage fully open?

how are the carb FLOATS SET?

what air filter SIZE and is it clean?

whats the TOTAL IGNITION ADVANCE?

whats the VACUUM READ AT IDLE?

whats the VOLTAGE at the COIL?

AT WHAT rpm does the advance reach MAX advance?

WHAT is the exhaust back pressure reading? (IDLE and 4000rpm under load)

HOW did you determine true TDC or did you just assume the timing tab and damper are correct?

What color is the ignition spark?

what is YOUR OHMS reading on the plug wires?

whats your spark plug gap?

CARB JETS? METERING RODS?

HAVE you REPLACED the cap and ROTOR?

ANY indication of a MISS or BOG?

HAVE you tried a DIFFERANT CARB?

have YOU verified EACH cylinder is firing?

have you VERIFIED the FIRING ORDER IS CORRECT?

HAVE you VERIFIED the LASH/PRELOAD on the rockers RECENTLY, and are you sure the cam is not worn?

are you SURE the trans fluid and rear differential are filled to the correct levels?

whats the engine temp after it warms up?

whats the trans fluid temp?

IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!


 
Old_Longboarder 
Deceased Member RIP Art
Posts: 12969
Old_Longboarder
Age: 68
Loc: Long Beach Ca, near Vet's...
Reg: 03-28-02
12-05-08 07:13 PM - Post#1578650    
    In response to grumpyvette

If it runs, it ain't a Ford. If it doesn't run, chrome it.

Home.., is where dog hair sticks to everything but the dog.





 
grumpyvette 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts: 17142
grumpyvette
Age: 70
Loc: FLORIDA USA
Reg: 03-16-01
12-16-08 07:01 PM - Post#1586282    
    In response to Old_Longboarder


IF youve ever pulled or installed an engine like this with a leveler....could I make a suggestion, PLEASE use a single longer section of chain that drapes thru and out over both ends of the engine tilter, or even better, use two and drape them thru each end (possiably with a clevis) and bolt both ends of both chains to the engine as it will be far less likely to slip out under load.
YOU would NOT be the first guy to have one chain slide out of those end chain grip slots and the engine swing an destroy a wind sheild or radiator OR WORSE! doing that like the picture ABOVE depicts......[the picture below shows is in a safer config


IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!


 
Iowa 409 Guy 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 30
Iowa 409 Guy
Loc: Iowa
Reg: 11-17-09
12-10-09 07:58 PM - Post#1821719    
    In response to grumpyvette

I was thinking of having a local guy build one of my 409 engines. He was in business building engines, but has no experience on the w engines. Smart guy, but i am a little leary on using him. Comments appreciated. PM me if you do not want to post comments.

Thanks


Dave

64 Impala 409 4 Speed
47 Knucklehead


 
MikeB 
Ultra Senior Member
Posts: 10058
MikeB
Loc: Plano, TX
Reg: 08-28-03
07-26-10 07:05 PM - Post#1951206    
    In response to PhatOne

Here's a couple more for small block Chevy:

Are the rocker roller tips centered on the valve stem tips? If not, you may need to use adjustable guide plates. I have seen this problem on both Brodix and old ProTopline heads.

With aftermarket heads, do the head bolts thread into the block at least 6 turns? Some aftermarket heads like Dart Iron Eagle have thicker bosses requiring longer bolts, especially on the bottom row of 8. With only 5 threads penetration or less, you can strip the threads in the block with 65 lb/ft torque. ARP makes a set of bolts approximately 3-4 threads longer than stock.




1982 C10 SWB pickup: Unmolested base truck, original paint. Originally had 250 six and 3-on-the-tree
Now has 355 with Vortec heads, RamJet roller cam, LS6 beehive springs, TH350
Retired, but working part-time on 50s-70s cars & trucks.


 
BigCoop64 
Senior Member
Posts: 634
BigCoop64
Loc: Milwaukee,Wisconsin
Reg: 02-19-04
08-28-10 11:51 AM - Post#1968016    
    In response to MikeB

I got a tip...When u do a rebuild,make sure u get a new flywheel/flexplate.....the chances are they will crack with the fresh engine

1964 Chevy Impala Sport Coupe
Original 283 w/powerglide
dual exhaust,Holly/Edelbrock top
HEI,MSD 6al

other rides-'03 Monte carlo/'00 Toyota Camry
61-64 manuals
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/e6y4bdp4z7oagvr/NP 7MLTY...


 
models916 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 4774

Age: 67
Loc: Addison, IL
Reg: 05-28-10
01-14-11 01:12 PM - Post#2031940    
    In response to BigCoop64

Flat tappet Lifters wear into the cam. The cam never wears to the lifter. It is safe to install new lifters on a good used/installed cam. Lifters need to be broken in same as new cam and lifters. If you are replacing worn lifters, it's probable the cam is bad also.



 
68zz502fi 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 49

Loc: usa
Reg: 10-13-07
04-11-11 11:41 PM - Post#2075465    
    In response to models916

I agree totally.



 
BBtech 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 32

Loc: Orland Park Ill.
Reg: 01-21-12
02-05-12 11:32 AM - Post#2187424    
    In response to 68zz502fi

I once installed small block rods indifferent as to which side went towards the crank cheek. Engine actually ran but with 3 lbs oil pressure. Talk about feeling stupid. Promptly bought my first Motors Manual after that.



 
Todd W. White 
Contributor
Posts: 277
Todd W. White
Loc: Sapulpa, Oklahoma
Reg: 02-08-08
11-22-12 07:11 PM - Post#2291336    
    In response to grumpyvette

Thanks grumpyvette for some REALLY helpful insights!

I'd like to ask a few questions that are specific to my engine, if I may:

I have a 1964 283 that has been professionally rebuilt. I has been upgraded for use with modern no-lead gas, and has had a new "RV" cam installed, per the recommendation of the rebuilder, who has been doing this since the 1960's. It has "umbrella" type valve seals (I think that's what he called them), and has been lubed with assembly lube, but has no oil in it yet.

I have installed it and am getting close to getting it ready to run. I plan to use the oil system priming tool someone around here recommended, to prevent a dry start up.

I wish to use synthetic in the engine (and my newly rebuilt SM420 transmission), unless you can help me see why that wouldn't be wise.

Here are my questions:

1. What brand and type of break-in oil would you recommend, and why?

2. When I go to synthetic, which brand and viscosity would be best for my engine?

Many THANKS in advance for your help! I want to keep this engine going strong for a LONG time, and I know the oil issue is an important key to the success of that goal.



 
grumpyvette 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts: 17142
grumpyvette
Age: 70
Loc: FLORIDA USA
Reg: 03-16-01
11-23-12 10:35 AM - Post#2291451    
    In response to Todd W. White

  • Todd W. White Said:
Thanks grumpyvette for some REALLY helpful insights!

I'd like to ask a few questions that are specific to my engine, if I may:

I have a 1964 283 that has been professionally rebuilt. I has been upgraded for use with modern no-lead gas, and has had a new "RV" cam installed, per the recommendation of the rebuilder, who has been doing this since the 1960's. It has "umbrella" type valve seals (I think that's what he called them), and has been lubed with assembly lube, but has no oil in it yet.

I have installed it and am getting close to getting it ready to run. I plan to use the oil system priming tool someone around here recommended, to prevent a dry start up.

I wish to use synthetic in the engine (and my newly rebuilt SM420 transmission), unless you can help me see why that wouldn't be wise.

Here are my questions:

1. What brand and type of break-in oil would you recommend, and why?

Ive been using SHELLS rottela or valvoline racing oil PLUS a can of ZDDPLUS additive which has friction reducers
http://zddplus.com/

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...
http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

2. When I go to synthetic, which brand and viscosity would be best for my engine?

theres several good options, Ive used a good deal of MOBILE 1 and royal purple most of the major name brands work if you remember to CHANGE both the oil and filters fairly regularly, Id suggest the oil filter every 5000 miles and the oil at no more than 15,000 miles if your using a good synthetic oil.the non-synthetics are best changed at about 7000-8000 miles, and change the filter and don,t get cheap use a good oil filter. because all oils degrade with heat and wear and all oils pick up and hold crud in solution, a good filter helps but no mater what they say oil does wear out.

read the linked info


Many THANKS in advance for your help! I want to keep this engine going strong for a LONG time, and I know the oil issue is an important key to the success of that goal.




IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!


Edited by grumpyvette on 11-23-12 12:49 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Todd W. White 
Contributor
Posts: 277
Todd W. White
Loc: Sapulpa, Oklahoma
Reg: 02-08-08
11-23-12 07:42 PM - Post#2291594    
    In response to grumpyvette

Thanks again for the great advice!

I think I'll go with the Mobil 1, 10W-30.

As for break in oil, I'm doing research on it now - what I'm reading now is that, since my 1964 283 was built to original factory tolerances, it isn't necessary for me to use a special "break-in oil": just use a high-quality non-synthetic oil, and follow the break-in procedures (I plan on using the method described by grumpyvette above).

If I'm reading things correctly, I should use an oil designed for an older engine like mine (suggestions???), and I should add some E.O.S. to the first batch of oil used for breaking in the engine.

Is this correct?



 
Todd W. White 
Contributor
Posts: 277
Todd W. White
Loc: Sapulpa, Oklahoma
Reg: 02-08-08
11-28-12 08:06 AM - Post#2293008    
    In response to Todd W. White

Bump



 
grumpyvette 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts: 17142
grumpyvette
Age: 70
Loc: FLORIDA USA
Reg: 03-16-01
11-28-12 08:26 AM - Post#2293016    
    In response to Todd W. White

  • Todd W. White Said:
Thanks again for the great advice!

I think I'll go with the Mobil 1, 10W-30.

As for break in oil, I'm doing research on it now - what I'm reading now is that, since my 1964 283 was built to original factory tolerances, it isn't necessary for me to use a special "break-in oil": just use a high-quality non-synthetic oil, and follow the break-in procedures (I plan on using the method described by grumpyvette above).

If I'm reading things correctly, I should use an oil designed for an older engine like mine (suggestions???), and I should add some E.O.S. to the first batch of oil used for breaking in the engine.

Is this correct?



a decent oil need not be all that hard to locate and E.O.S. works fine but leaves ash that can occasionally cause detonation issues if left in the oil in the engine fore extended time.
the SHELL OR VALVOLINE oil linked to earlier works with the additive linked to earlier, I have not had a cam lobe fail in DECADES doing that, and I also coat both the cam lobes and lifter bases with a good moly cam lube on new cams
Ive been using SHELLS rottela or valvoline racing oil PLUS a can of ZDDPLUS additive which has friction reducers
http://zddplus.com/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/crn-99004-1/med i...
http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...
http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...


IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!


Edited by grumpyvette on 11-28-12 08:30 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Todd W. White 
Contributor
Posts: 277
Todd W. White
Loc: Sapulpa, Oklahoma
Reg: 02-08-08
11-29-12 12:19 PM - Post#2293407    
    In response to grumpyvette

Thanks, Grumpy!

I guess I'll get the Valvoline racing oil to break it in, and add a can of the ZDDPlus to it when I do, as you recommend.

From my reading about it, it appears that I should add a can of ZDDPlus with each oil change, even though I will be using Mobil-1. Is that your recommendation?



 




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