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Username Post: Front supspension rebuild ???'s        (Topic#149370)
mike-hollowell 
Contributor
Posts: 200
mike-hollowell
Loc: Tulsa, OK - Oil Capitol
Reg: 06-12-06
01-20-07 04:02 PM - Post#1076039    

Hey all, I'm rebuilding the front suspension on my 52 hardtop and I've got a few questions. First, I've read the manual, the online 49 front suspension manual and searched and read all the posts I could find on here. I have gotten the passenger side apart and am in the process of putting it back together with the kit from The Filling Station. I got the lower, inner control arm shaft on the control arm but the shaft doesn't move very easy. It will move though, just not real easy. Is this something that will wear in or do I have something wrong. The manual says the upper, inner shaft should fall under it's own weight, but doesn't get to specific on the lower one, although I assume it should be the same. When the control arms are all assembled on the car without spindles or coil springs-shocks, how easy should it be to move the assembly up and down by hand? Should it be stiff? Because it is. Any help is appreciated. Thanks, Mike.
'46 Chevrolet Fleetline Aerosedan
'51 GMC Truck
'73 Harley Davidson Sportster
'82 Harley Davidson FLHS

My Pics


 
El Boricua 
Senior Member
Posts: 244
El Boricua
Loc: Puerto Rico
Reg: 12-30-05
01-21-07 11:01 AM - Post#1076505    
    In response to mike-hollowell

It should move freely. I think you probably have a lot of old grease, dirt or corrosion in the shaft bushings. You have to take those apart to clean and lubricate everything.

Good Luck
Luis,

2009 Dodge Ram Laramie 4X4
1967 Jeep CJ-5
1954 Chevy 210

If don't leak, it's empty


 
DZAUTO 
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 7376

Loc: Mustang, OK, USA
Reg: 12-25-99
01-23-07 12:34 PM - Post#1078274    
    In response to mike-hollowell

Mike,
I've been rebuilding these frontends (49-54 car and 53-62 Vette are the same) for about 40yrs and I assure you, when rebuilt properly, with NEW parts, the upper and lower A-frames should be stiff, ESPECIALLY the upper A-frame. The lower will swing more easily because it is longer and heavier than the upper one. The upper A-frame should be between kind of stiff to real stiff. DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT, after greasing and driving a very few miles, it will be plenty loose. AS YOU ASSEMBLE THE PARTS, GREASE THE JOINTS, MOVE THEM BACK AND FORTH/UP AND DOWN to work in the grease. After complete assembly, grease them again. After driving a few miles (less than 100) grease the entire frontend again. THESE ARE ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL METAL-TO-METAL JOINTS------------------- -------GREASING IS THE SECRET TO LONG LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!
I have one engine stand dedicated to rebuilding these frontends (if the cross member is removed from the car). Sure makes is easier to take apart/put one together.













Tom Parsons


 
mike-hollowell 
Contributor
Posts: 200
mike-hollowell
Loc: Tulsa, OK - Oil Capitol
Reg: 06-12-06
01-23-07 06:39 PM - Post#1078525    
    In response to El Boricua

Hey guys, thanks for the input. Tom, I was hoping you would respond. I read over your other posts many times. I can't wait to drive the car after I get finished. I had to cut the lower, outer shafts in two with my die grinder just to get them out. They were locked up and one side was pivoting on the bushing that goes through the spindle support and the other side was pivoting at the shaft and A arm. So I will keep it greased well. One question on your pictures...what does the red and yellow tape represent? Again, thanks for the replies. Mike.
'46 Chevrolet Fleetline Aerosedan
'51 GMC Truck
'73 Harley Davidson Sportster
'82 Harley Davidson FLHS

My Pics


 
khardy 
"13th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2125
khardy
Loc: At sea or in Houston, Tex...
Reg: 12-17-99
01-24-07 08:57 AM - Post#1078928    
    In response to DZAUTO

Hi Tom,

Can you put together a guide with parts list and pictures for this proceedure?
This can go along-side Bob Heydon's demonstration of the hood spring tool on the Miscellaneous Info page.

LMK what you think.

Cheers!
Keith

My 1951 Chevy
Old Online Chevy Manuals


 
usmile4 
"7th Year Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 3621
usmile4
Age: 66
Loc: Naperville, Illinois
Reg: 08-12-05
01-24-07 09:14 AM - Post#1078939    
    In response to khardy

I second that motion. Tom helped me out quite a bit when I was rebuilding the front of the 49. he really knows his stuff and could have made it only better if he cad come to my garage and rebuilt it for me.

I also put my cross member on my engine stand when I used the POR-15 on it and it made it much easier to paint.
Bill Gommel

49 chevy Styleline (Sold), 51 Styleline 2 dr Special, 235 (from a 61 truck) bored .060 over, Dual Carter/Webers, Fenton Headers, T5- 5 speed with a 56 rear end.


 
DZAUTO 
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 7376

Loc: Mustang, OK, USA
Reg: 12-25-99
01-24-07 12:13 PM - Post#1079087    
    In response to mike-hollowell

  • mike-hollowell]One question on your pictures...what does the red and yellow tape represent? quote Said:


Mike,
That is orange and yellow paint stripes, which I have duplicated, from what was done at the factory when these parts were manufactured. The paint stripes are related to inspections that are done duting manufacture/assembly. As you probably know, there are multiple places on cars where marks, paint splashes, etc, are found that were put on the cars during assembly. It is common to find paint splotches, stripes, numbers, words, letters, inspection tags, build sheets, etc, etc. Those particular parts in my pictures are from the frontend rebuild of a customer's 57 Corvette which had fuel injection and the HD brake and suspension options. When I cleaned the parts (very carefully) those paint markings were what I discovered underneath the crud. From some kind of historical documentation, the owner had learned that those HD springs were marked with gray stripes on the lower 4 coils, so I also put stripes on the springs. There was ZERO documentation for a paint code for the shade of gray, so we just picked a gray that "looked" good. Sometimes when engines get rebuilt, and the crud and old paint gets removed, it is common to find the remains of BIG brushed-on letters (usually 2 letters indicating the engine code) on the bare iron block or heads. Usually all of this is removed when the block/heads is vatted at the machine shop. Sometimes, some of the VERY picky restorers want these details duplicated during a restoration or rebuild (and sometimes, some of these people are a pain in the backside).
The pictures of the above front crossmember/suspension are from a 57 Corvette that was UNofficially supported by Chevrolet in SCCA competition and it had an extensive and impressive racing history. The current owner is having it restored (as closely as can be documented) to it's race days configuration and he wants EVERY detail to be as accurate as possible----------------- -------including the original factory paint and inspection markings.
Sooooooooooooooooooo, that's what the orange and yellow stripes are for.
And a final note. SOMETIMES, in the older parts books, when you look up a part, there may be a NOTE which states that part ABC or XYZ can be identified by a dab of green or blue or yellow or etc paint. BUT, the parts book doesn't say how or where the paint mark is applied to the part. Just by examining the part (which has a dab of paint on it), it sometimes looks as if maybe there was a can of paint near the assembly line with a brush in it and the hourly wage worker took the brush and dabbed on a splash of paint, put the brush down, or back in the can of paint, ready to dab the next part.

Tom Parsons


 
DZAUTO 
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 7376

Loc: Mustang, OK, USA
Reg: 12-25-99
01-24-07 12:27 PM - Post#1079096    
    In response to khardy

  • khardy Said:
Hi Tom,

Can you put together a guide with parts list and pictures for this proceedure?
This can go along-side Bob Heydon's demonstration of the hood spring tool on the Miscellaneous Info page.

LMK what you think.

Cheers!




Keith,
I COULD do that, BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUT, purchasing a copy of a 49-54 service manual would be as good, or better. It is pretty detailed.
I will add this, aside from having BIG wrenches to rebuilt or replace parts on one of these frontends, the ONLY special tools that are really needed is a 3ft length of 1/2in all-thread/nuts/washers and a good used lower-outer bushing/shaft (or you can use a new one).
The all-thread/nuts/washers are a perfect (and cheap) tool for removing/installing the springs (see second picture above for how I use the all-thread to remove/install springs), and the lower/outer bushing/shaft is used as an INSTALLATION tool for the upper-inner shaft (use a pipe wrench for removing that shaft).
I have thrown away tons of removed lower/outer bushings/shafts that would have been good enough to use as an installation tool, BUT, I had one for my use, so it never occured to me many years ago that someday there would be a bunch of you guys that could use a free tool!!!!
From now on, the next lower-outer bushing/shaft that I replace (if its useable as a tool), I'll give it to whoever wants it on a first come first serve basis.
Tom Parsons


 
khardy 
"13th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2125
khardy
Loc: At sea or in Houston, Tex...
Reg: 12-17-99
01-24-07 12:52 PM - Post#1079115    
    In response to DZAUTO

  • DZAUTO Said:
purchasing a copy of a 49-54 service manual would be as good, or better. It is pretty detailed.



Hi Tom,

Something like this one? 1949 - 1953 Passenger Car Shop Manual w/1954 Supplement

With your experience and some of the photos you have taken, I think this could be of benefit to the rest of us. Just a suggestion.

Cheers!

Keith

My 1951 Chevy
Old Online Chevy Manuals


 
aarona 
Senior Member
Posts: 457
aarona
Loc: Pearland (Houston), TX ...
Reg: 03-10-01
01-24-07 06:15 PM - Post#1079457    
    In response to mike-hollowell

Hey Mike, what part number is that rebuild kit? I have been looking for a complete kit and have only found Kanter. Everyone else seems to sell by the piece. Info please. Thanks
________________ AaronA 1954 Chevy Bel Air Sedan


 
usmile4 
"7th Year Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 3621
usmile4
Age: 66
Loc: Naperville, Illinois
Reg: 08-12-05
01-24-07 08:16 PM - Post#1079568    
    In response to aarona

The Filling Station sells the parts separately.
Bill Gommel

49 chevy Styleline (Sold), 51 Styleline 2 dr Special, 235 (from a 61 truck) bored .060 over, Dual Carter/Webers, Fenton Headers, T5- 5 speed with a 56 rear end.


 
DZAUTO 
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 7376

Loc: Mustang, OK, USA
Reg: 12-25-99
01-24-07 09:44 PM - Post#1079650    
    In response to khardy

  • khardy Said:
  • DZAUTO Said:
purchasing a copy of a 49-54 service manual would be as good, or better. It is pretty detailed.



Hi Tom,

Something like this one? 1949 - 1953 Passenger Car Shop Manual w/1954 Supplement

With your experience and some of the photos you have taken, I think this could be of benefit to the rest of us. Just a suggestion.

Cheers!





Keith,
That is EXACTLY the shop manual section that I'm talking about. EVERYTHING that I do or know about these frontends is in that section. I do a couple things a little differently (known as short cuts), but the end result is still exactly what is shown in the shop manual. My uncle, Mom's older brother, was a factory trained Chevy mechanic (he came back from WWII as a B17 pilot and went to work at one of the bigger Okla City Chevy dealers) and he taught me all I know about working on Chevys. In 1959, he and a another Chevy mechanic left the dealer and opened their own garage. And I've been messing with them for over 40yrs now. For example, the shop manual shows to use a floor jack under the lower A-frame and remove the bolts from the lower-inner shaft. If the jack should side slip, the spring could suddenly cause some unexpected damage. With my method of using a 3ft all-thread through the spring, the spring will always be retained until complete pressure is relieved. There is one picture in the shop manual where the cross member is removed from the car to be worked on. I took that and mounted the cross member on an engine stand so that the entire cross member\suspension could be rotated for disassembly/assembly. Works great! If I were to write some information about rebuilding a frontend, it would end up being almost word for word what is in the shop manual. Trust me, that 49-54 shop manual section is EXCELLENT. BUT, if anyone has any further questions about rebuilding one, I'm always happy to help. I really recommend buying a copy of the manual.
There are a couple of repairs that are NOT in the manual, such as repairing the holes/threads in the top of the spring tower for the upper-inner shaft. This requires completely removing the spot welded threaded bushings in the tower and welding in new bushings (or inserts) which are available from vendors. This will require either removing the cross member and taking it to a welder or having a welder do the repair in place, or, completely replacing the cross member with one that has good holes. Either way, its not a difficult job to do this repair, its just time consuming and may be inconvienent for some people. BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUT, working on these old cars is what its all about, RIGHT?

Uncle Jerry


Jim and Jerry's Garage
Tom Parsons


 
rrausch 
"13th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 10568
rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
01-24-07 11:42 PM - Post#1079733    
    In response to DZAUTO

Great pictures Tom. Thanks for them, and for the info too.
1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
mike-hollowell 
Contributor
Posts: 200
mike-hollowell
Loc: Tulsa, OK - Oil Capitol
Reg: 06-12-06
01-25-07 07:40 AM - Post#1079887    
    In response to aarona

aarona, the Filling Station part number is FS-793 - $260.00. I thought it was a great deal and the parts so far have been nice. They had to drop ship it from the manufacturer and told me it could take up to three weeks to get it. I had it at my door in 4 days. Good luck. Mike.
'46 Chevrolet Fleetline Aerosedan
'51 GMC Truck
'73 Harley Davidson Sportster
'82 Harley Davidson FLHS

My Pics


 
aarona 
Senior Member
Posts: 457
aarona
Loc: Pearland (Houston), TX ...
Reg: 03-10-01
01-25-07 09:09 AM - Post#1079965    
    In response to mike-hollowell

Thanks for the quick reply Mike.
________________ AaronA 1954 Chevy Bel Air Sedan


 
patgizz 
Senior Moderator Member
Posts: 8241
patgizz
Loc: Cleveland, OH
Reg: 01-30-00
11-05-07 03:07 PM - Post#1289206    
    In response to mike-hollowell

see also: http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?fi...

for more suspension rebuilding information

 
wahoo54 
Contributor
Posts: 171

Age: 59
Loc: Okla
Reg: 12-04-07
12-27-07 06:00 PM - Post#1328375    
    In response to mike-hollowell

Hey Mike,

I know this is off subject but do you know any good body shops around the Tulsa area for replacing sheet metal on my 54? Let me know.

Regards,

Jerry
See the USA in your Chevrolet!


 
rrausch 
"13th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 10568
rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
01-29-08 08:56 AM - Post#1353659    
    In response to wahoo54

I got stuck twice while rebuilding my front susp, and both times DZ was kind enough to spend time on the phone with me getting me unstuck. And let me tell ya--I tried EVERYTHING before I called him. I would never have gotten mine rebuilt without Tom. Thanks Tom.

Here's a picture of the completed front susp--wish now I'd thought to have painted those springs!

1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
boerdoc 
"3rd Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 125

Loc: idaho
Reg: 05-15-06
01-29-08 02:25 PM - Post#1353910    
    In response to rrausch

http://picasaweb.google.com/drmosby/1950/photo#51 6...
http://picasaweb.google.com/drmosby/1950/photo#51 6...
That is my suspension rebuild. I couldn't control myself with the paint can so I painted the arms with engine enamel. Any comments or opinions. I won't be offended. After all these are just self expressions. Thanks
Kent
1950 4 door Styleline with 1961-235 12v mini hei and 2 barrel H/W carb Patrick's 251/254 cam (M4H) T-5 trans with 3.36 gears, Fenton's and dual smitty's.


Edited by boerdoc on 01-29-08 02:26 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
TheDUKEofDULL 
Member
Posts: 87
TheDUKEofDULL
Loc: The DON'T DRINK & DRI...
Reg: 11-19-06
02-02-08 06:49 AM - Post#1356669    
    In response to boerdoc

Quickly please (I have a short attention span)(just kidding) How do I take the wander out of my 53 Chevy car? It also steers a bit hard when I'm parking it. I will be leaving the motor & front fenders (grille, etc.) on the car. Any tips?
Thanks,
I DIDN'T vote for HIM...


 
Deuce_Coupe 
Senior Member
Posts: 264

Loc: Mankato, MN
Reg: 09-18-01
03-26-08 04:40 PM - Post#1397280    
    In response to TheDUKEofDULL

My 53 was wandering and kinda sloppy when I first got it. I replaced the idler arm pin and bushings and HOLLY COW! I could not beleive the difference! It was like a brand new car. You might want to check the tie rod ends as well, they are probably worn out too.
32 5W Coupe
64 Chevelle Convert
53 Bel-Air 2dr sedan
87 Silverado K20
78 Silverado K20
86,87,89,90 Suburbans


 
52chevybob 
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 5628

Reg: 05-27-08
05-28-08 03:58 PM - Post#1443247    
    In response to TheDUKEofDULL

The first thing to do is to inspect he whole steering system for slop.
Common points are the bellcrank between the two tierods and the gearbox itself.
The gearbox has a built in "highpoint" where the steering is a bit tighter than the rest of the gear. These were built this way so that the steering will be tight when going down the road. Don't overtighten the slop in the gearbox or you will break the gears inside and you'll be doing a big repair! The shop manual tells how to do this adjustment.
The other, more common problem is the bearkings in the bellcrank which will allow the bellcrank go up and down a bit. These bearings are a common part at any good bearing supply but the assy needs to be reamed to a good fit for the shaft of the bellcrank so don't go looking for exactly the right inside diameter as it won't happen.
The other things are the kingpins followed by the other bearings in the front end A arms.
The kingpins are not hard to replace as long as you first pull the bolt holding them in place. See the shop manual for the various parts of the kingpin assy. No reaming is needed and the bearings should come out without too much problem as they are "floating" in there.
Other problems include the tierod ends themselves. If you have to replace the right side tierod, replace it with a set of parts for the left side so you don't need to buy that expensive part again. The tierods are both the same length!
Lastly, the cars do wander a bit more than newer cars but the steering should be fairly tight or it gets to be fun to stay on a straight track.
Back when the cars got built, the speeds weren't as high as today and they often rode a bit on dirt roads where wander really didn't matter so much.

 
whiskey1954 
Contributor
Posts: 695
whiskey1954
Loc: central north carolina
Reg: 12-07-08
01-13-09 07:08 PM - Post#1606289    
    In response to DZAUTO

getting ready to attempt this project on my 54 hardtop was wondering if you had to do any special mods to the engine stand to accept the crossmember

 
lloyds58 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 48

Reg: 03-27-09
03-27-09 11:47 AM - Post#1662490    
    In response to DZAUTO

Tom, I have a 54 chevy 210 2 door sedan, on the top of the spring tower where the upper control arm goes through there is a flat washer that has been spot welded from the factory, we had to drive the shafts out because they were frozen, my question to you is whatcan I do as far as the washers go? Or do I have to get another cross member, thank you, please let me know, Lloyd

 
Keith_Knox 
Moderator and "12th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 3450
Keith_Knox
Age: 72
Loc: Napa, Ca USA
Reg: 04-02-00
03-27-09 07:40 PM - Post#1662790    
    In response to lloyds58

Adding more of Tom Parsons wisdom.
03-27-09 11:33 AM - Post#1662481
In response to chaimv


chaimv Said:There was no problem with them except age. The car was driven very little but I want to make sure the car was safe. there was no play to begin with. everything that has been diseassembled so far was well greesed with almost no wear. I never greased it/drove it in the 4 years i have had it and it was parked for about 20 years prior too.

I guess i will try the new bushings on the old shaft and see if there is any play

thanks again


From Tom Parsons

Item VERY FIRST, do you have a brand new upper-inner shaft and bushings????
If so, screw a NEW bushing onto the NEW shaft approximately 2/3 of the threads. Wiggle the bushing on the shaft up-down, side-to-side. Notice how much play there is between the bushing/threaded end of the shaft.
Next, thoroughly clean the threads on the existing shaft in the car. Screw a new bushing onto about 2/3 of the threads of the existing shaft (BOTH ENDS, the rear threads usually wear more than the front threads). Wiggle it in the same manner as you did on the new shaft. IF THE WIGGLE TEST PRODUCES APPROXIMTELY THE SAME AMOUNT OF PLAY, THEN YOU'RE GOOD TO GO.
IF THE WIGGLE TEST PRODUCES A NOTICEABLE INCREASE IN PLAY, REPLACE THE SHAFT/BUSHING.
The shaft is screwed into the cross member VERY, VERY tight. That's how it's supposed to be.
There are two methods of removing the shaft. There is a tool shown in the service manual.
The second method is a GIGONDA pipe wrench. NO, that pipe wrench in your hand is NOT gigonda-----------------I MEAN A GREAT BIG PIPE WRENCH!!!!!!!!!
Grasp the FORWARD end of the threads with the pipe wrench (forget the tool in the book), and unscrew the shaft FROM THE FRONT OF CROSS MEMBER. It ONLY comes out, it ONLY goes in from the front. The threads on the shaft which screw into the cross member are bigger on one end, thus it goes back in ONE WAY--------------- FROM THE FRONT!
A NEW upper-inner shaft has threads that are about .008in oversize. Sooooooooooo, a new shaft will be EXTREMELY tight going back in!
Installing the upper-inner shaft requires a SPECIAL tool. Guess what, you have that special tool and don't even know it! If you are replacing the lower-outer shaft/bushing, use the old bushing and shaft as an installation tool for the upper-inner shaft. Screw the lower-outer bushing onto the FORWARD end of the upper shaft and lock them together by using 2 big wrenches to lock the upper shaft, lower bushing, lower shaft together and then use a big wrench on the lower bushing to screw in the new upper shaft. IT WILL BE EXTREMELY DIFFICULT TO GET THE NEW UPPER SHAFT TO START SCREWING INTO THE CROSS MEMBER HOLES. KEEP TURNING----------------- IT'LL GO! DO NOT USE LUBRICANT ON THE THREADS--------INSTALL IT DRY! IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE ESSENTIALLY AS TIGHT IN THE CROSS MEMBER AS IF IT WERE WELDED IN!!! Once installed, the shaft is NEVER supposed to turn!!!
When you have the new upper shaft partially screwed in, start measuring the amount of rear and front threads protruding from the cross member holes---------------- THEY MUST BE EQUAL IN LENGTH!!!!!!!!!!!
(In a pinch, you can use a new lower-outer bushing/shaft as an installation tool----ONE TIME. Use only one bushing/shaft on one upper-inner shaft, and then use the other new bushing/shaft for installing the other side)

Once you are finished with the rebuild and have everything assembled, grease EVERY fitting, flex the suspension, grease it again, drive it a short distance, grease it again. THE KEY TO LONG LIFE OF THESE OLD SUSPENSION JOINTS IS TO KEEP THEM GREASED. With care, and ocassional greasing, they will last a long, long, long time. Tom Parsons


 
lloyds58 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 48

Reg: 03-27-09
03-28-09 03:22 PM - Post#1663277    
    In response to DZAUTO

Does the kanter front suspension kit come with the inserts that go into the spring towers to install the upper shafts? I have been reading on your post how to do this, please let me know, thank you, lloyd

 
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