Snake
Senior Member
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12-11-06 07:13 PM - Post#1049178
I apologize for all of the questions lately 
While trying to install a new pilot bearing tonight, I found that the diameter is way too big for the hole in the crankshaft. I have the old bushing that does fit, but I'm able to slip it right in and spin it around, so I'm thinking it's not a good idea to use that one.
Are there different size bushings throughout the years? The two new ones I have are never gonna fit in there. Even pounding on them with a socket isn't working.
Jake
Building a 57 Black Widow inspired 150 2 door sedan, with a 5.3 LS motor and 4l60e
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rewinder
Member
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Loc: alberta canada
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Re: Pilot bushing fit
12-11-06 08:07 PM - Post#1049179
In response to Snake
I BELEIVE THERE ARE 2 AVAILABLE. I HAD THE SAME PROBLEM AND REQUIRED THE LARGER O.D.. I HAVE THE SMALLER O.D.ONE IN FRONT OF ME AND IT MEASURES 1.065 ON THE O.D. THE MFG. IS FEDERAL MOGUL AND THE PART NO. IS PB 656. HOPE THIS HELPS
REWINDER
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clay69
Very Senior Member
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Re: Pilot bushing fit
12-12-06 02:46 AM - Post#1049180
In response to rewinder
In my experience they do need to be a bit snug you don't want them to spin while in the crank. I would carefully sand the outside of the bushing until it fits by tapping it in with a brass drift or a hard plastic hammer.
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 DZAUTO
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Re: Pilot bushing fit
12-12-06 03:08 AM - Post#1049181
In response to clay69
In the history of the Chevy V8 engine, TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE (and I believe others who are knowledgeable of Chevy engines will agree), there have only been 2 sizes of holes in the rear of Chevy V8 cranks. One hole is the "standard" size hole and the other was a bigger hole that was machined for engines that were to have a Turboglide behind them. When the Turboglide was discontinued, there was only ONE size hole in the rear of the crank. I know of no other size hole and I've been screwing with Chevys for over 40yrs.
The pilot bushing is supposed to be an interference fit--------------------SUPER TIGHT! The ideal tool for installing a pilot bushing is an old tranny input shaft. Place the bushing on the end of the input shaft (one end of the bushing hole is beveled, that goes toward the outside), put a little grease on it and drive it in with a big hammer until the bushing is flush with the hole in the crank (don't drive it deeper).
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57belairman
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Re: Pilot bushing fit
12-12-06 03:26 AM - Post#1049182
In response to Snake
You can taper the leading edge slightly to help get it started. Not too much!! A light coat of grease helps too. If you have pounded on it too much you might have destorted it too. Get a new one and start over. Use a brass or alum drive punch.
Life is short, Eat dessert first, I always do!!
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Old_Longboarder
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Re: Pilot bushing fit
12-12-06 03:45 AM - Post#1049183
In response to DZAUTO
Quote:
The ideal tool for installing a pilot bushing is an old tranny input shaft.
I totally agree with this statement.
An old input shaft cut off just ahead of the bearing. They also work well for removing pilot bushings from the back of the crank.
"The most precious jewels you'll ever have around your neck are the arms of your children."
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57_sedan_delivery
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Re: Pilot bushing fit
12-12-06 03:57 AM - Post#1049184
In response to Old_Longboarder
I didn't cut mine off but left the gear in place as a 'handle' for aligning the clutch disc but when installing a pilot bushing I put a piece of wood over the end of the gear to tap on.
Mike W.
Founding father Desert Classic Chevys in Phoenix, Az.
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55_150coupe
Junior Contributor
Posts: 221
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Re: Pilot bushing fit
12-12-06 06:04 AM - Post#1049185
In response to clay69
Can you put the bushing in the freezer before installing it to contract it a little?
Maybe also warm the flange with a torch too?
Also, what about this post?
http://www.chevytalk.org/threads/showfla...rue#Post1534283
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raycow
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Re: Pilot bushing fit
12-12-06 08:33 AM - Post#1049186
In response to 55_150coupe
When I worked in the parts business we stocked an undersized bushing to be used when automatic engines were converted to stick. Apparently, some of the factory installed crankshafts were not bored to finished diameter. I have never run into this problem on replacement engines or cranks.
Unfortunately, I never bothered to mike one of those undersized bushings, so I don't know what size they were. I believe the normal ones are about 1.095". It would probably be best to mike your crank bore, especially if you suspect the engine originally came with an automatic.
Ray
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Snake
Senior Member
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Re: Pilot bushing fit
12-12-06 08:36 AM - Post#1049187
In response to raycow
Thanks very for the help everyone.
I'll measure it and try to figure things out from there.
Jake
Building a 57 Black Widow inspired 150 2 door sedan, with a 5.3 LS motor and 4l60e
+Remembering Eric Martin+ |
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 beejay
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Re: Pilot bushing fit
12-12-06 09:38 AM - Post#1049188
In response to Snake
Jake,
I believe you're putting in a 5-spd, aren't ya? If so, are you going to use the bearing or bushing to fit? A couple of guys have used the bushing rather than the bearing. Just curious. 
Bruce
Bruce
'56 4-door BelAir, 350, Holley 600, Eddie intake, TKO 600, CPP P/S and A arms, Sierra Gold & Adobe Beige
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Snake
Senior Member
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Re: Pilot bushing fit
12-12-06 09:56 AM - Post#1049189
In response to beejay
I got a bushing with the clutch kit, but also bought a bearing which I planned to use instead. After reading up on them a little there are reports of them coming apart on here so I'm going to switch back to a bushing I think.
Jake
Building a 57 Black Widow inspired 150 2 door sedan, with a 5.3 LS motor and 4l60e
+Remembering Eric Martin+ |
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beejay
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Re: Pilot bushing fit
12-12-06 10:05 AM - Post#1049190
In response to Snake
Jake,
I think that's an excellent choice. That's what I'm gonna use when I get around to doing my car. 
Bruce
Bruce
'56 4-door BelAir, 350, Holley 600, Eddie intake, TKO 600, CPP P/S and A arms, Sierra Gold & Adobe Beige
2010 VW Jetta S/W, 2.5, 5-cyl,6-spd auto.
'87 Elkie, 350 with 700r4 tranny B&M floor shift
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Seon
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Re: Pilot bushing fit
12-12-06 02:19 PM - Post#1049191
In response to 57belairman
Quote:
A light coat of grease helps too.
Never put grease on the o.d. of the bearing. It'll cause it to spin in the crank after awhile. Always tap it in dry.
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Snake
Senior Member
Posts: 710
Loc: Danville, CA
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Re: Pilot bushing fit
12-12-06 02:39 PM - Post#1049192
In response to Seon
Is it ok to lubricate the inner part of it where the tranny input shaft sits?
Jake
Building a 57 Black Widow inspired 150 2 door sedan, with a 5.3 LS motor and 4l60e
+Remembering Eric Martin+ |
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Rick_L
Honored Member
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Re: Pilot bushing fit
12-12-06 02:48 PM - Post#1049193
In response to Snake
If it makes you feel good, OK, but don't over do it and allow lube to get on a friction surface.
The bronze bushing is made from a material called "Oilite", it has oil impregnated in it. The caged needle bearings need little lube, a touch of it would be ok. The sealed ball bearings are permanently lubed internally, do not use lube.
Remember that your pilot bearing and your throwout bearing only have relative motion when the clutch pedal is depressed - the rest of the time the pilot bushing, crank, and input shaft spin together, and the throwout bearing does not rotate on its retainer.
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Snake
Senior Member
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Re: Pilot bushing fit
12-12-06 03:21 PM - Post#1049194
In response to Rick_L
That makes sense, thanks again.
Jake
Building a 57 Black Widow inspired 150 2 door sedan, with a 5.3 LS motor and 4l60e
+Remembering Eric Martin+ |
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Coley
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Re: Pilot bushing fit
12-12-06 07:41 PM - Post#1049195
In response to Snake
I always put some inside and some on the outside to help it slide in. Never had one come loose yet.....
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DZAUTO
Dedicated Enthusiast
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Re: Pilot bushing fit
12-13-06 03:39 AM - Post#1049196
In response to Snake
I've been screwing with these old Chevys for almost 45yrs.
As a result, I have formed an UNSCIENTIFIC opinion about pilot bushings/bearings.
First, the GOOD bronze bushing is my preference. They are softer than the nose of a tranny input shaft and all they will do is wear and the hole will become enlarged. The tranny nose won't become damaged.
I've seen, as well as personally had the roller bearing type of pilot bearing go bad. One of them was essentially powder!!! When the rollers go bad, they CAN damage the nose of the tranny input. Not good!
Very honestly, as long as it is in good condition, the roller bearing is probably better------------------------but in my personal opinion and observations, the potential damage that can result to the input far outweighs the benefit of a roller bearing!!! If you do use the bearing, there is no question that it needs to be thoroughly greased. How much grease? I don't know, but once the bearing is filled with grease, you can't add any more.
I am also a strong believer of greasing a bushing, but, once you put plenty of grease in the bushing hole, then insert the nose of the tranny input shaft, there is no way to add additional grease. But grease it anyway.
Last, this is just one of those little things which needs to be inspected EVERY time the tranny is pulled or the clutch is removed. CHECK THE BUSHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OK, how do you "check" the bushing. I do it with the clutch removed. I use an old input shaft inserted into the bushing. Over the years I have learned just how much looseness there should be between an input nose and a brand new bushing (one of those things you just learn from years of experience). When I insert an input nose into a used bushing and wiggle it up and down, I can tell if the play is OK or too much. Once you learn how to remove a used bushing with grease and an input, it is too quick and easy to change the bushing. The effort and expense of replacing a pilot bushing is so cheap and easy that it is difficult to justify not doing it.
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Rons55
Member
Posts: 58
Loc: Upstate New York
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Re: Pilot bushing fit
12-13-06 09:27 AM - Post#1049197
In response to DZAUTO
Not to interupt this thread, but what is the best and easiest way to remove a bushing or bearing.
Thanks, Ron
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Snake
Senior Member
Posts: 710
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Re: Pilot bushing fit
12-13-06 09:46 AM - Post#1049198
In response to Rons55
The most common method I've heard is to pack the inside with heavy grease, then use a dowel that barely fits the ID of the bushing to drive it out hydraulically.
Jake
Building a 57 Black Widow inspired 150 2 door sedan, with a 5.3 LS motor and 4l60e
+Remembering Eric Martin+ |
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Rons55
Member
Posts: 58
Loc: Upstate New York
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Re: Pilot bushing fit
12-13-06 09:52 AM - Post#1049199
In response to Snake
Thanks Jake, that's the same method I heard also. Was just wondering if anyone here had some "majic" way.
Thanks, Ron
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inline0_0
"10th Year" Silver Supporting Member
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Re: Pilot bushing fit
12-13-06 10:30 AM - Post#1049200
In response to Rons55
As DZ AUTO said in his bottom line, or, SnapOn has made a puller for yrs. specifically for this, or, you can tap threads, put a bolt in it & use a heel bar to pry it out or slide hammer connected to the bolt. Once drilled a line of interconnecting holes & collapsed it. Whatever you got handy will do. Doug
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Rick_L
Honored Member
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Re: Pilot bushing fit
12-13-06 10:30 AM - Post#1049201
In response to Rons55
There are pullers made for pulling them, but I can't see spending the money unless I found one that the grease method couldn't get out. At that point I'd problably just get out the chisels, hammers, and grinders rather than making a trip to the store.
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raycow
Ultra Senior Member
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Re: Pilot bushing fit
12-13-06 11:02 AM - Post#1049202
In response to Rons55
Quote:
Was just wondering if anyone here had some "majic" way.
It's not "majic", but I run a 5/8"-18 tap into the bushing until it bottoms out. Keep on turning the tap, and it will pull the bushing. If the bushing is very badly worn, you may need to go to the next size larger tap.
Ray
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Old_Longboarder
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Re: Pilot bushing fit
12-13-06 11:35 AM - Post#1049203
In response to Rick_L
Magic way?
If the crank is out of the engine, you can stand it on end and use 30 weight oil instead of grease to hydraulic the bushing out.
"The most precious jewels you'll ever have around your neck are the arms of your children."
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Old Ken 55
Junior Contributor
Posts: 392
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Re: Pilot bushing fit
12-13-06 11:48 AM - Post#1049204
In response to Old_Longboarder
I used a socket and but it in a extenion backwards. Wrap the socket with duct tape to get it to fit snug the load the inside of the bearing with grease and tap the socket in the hole. You'll have to do it a few times but it works. Good Luck
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Rons55
Member
Posts: 58
Loc: Upstate New York
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Re: Pilot bushing fit
12-13-06 11:54 AM - Post#1049205
In response to Old_Longboarder
Great feedback and thanks for the idea on tap for a bolt method. Sound like a good alternative. Going to install a TKO600 I have soon and of course Keisler sends you a roller bearing. We have one on a 383 for the last five years without a problem so far, but with all the comments I still think a good bronze bushing is the way to go. Thanks again guys, and great site. Ron
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CJS57
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Re: Pilot bushing fit
12-13-06 12:07 PM - Post#1049206
In response to Rons55
I turned down a stock bushing to fit my undersize bone stock 57 283 pilot hole, when I converted to stick from powerglide. Someone else posted my older thread showing the details.
-----Also I called the Tremec Engineering Dept. and they approved my use of a bushing rather than a bearing with regards to warranty issues. They also said it will work fine. It is still working great too!
-----I agree that some early 283 cranks that came with Powerglide were never finish reamed and so that is why this situation happens sometimes.
-----Also to remove the old bushing you can just use that size of a bolt from Home Depot for about a buck, no need to get a tap, just grind some flutes into it and put a slight taper on its nose.
1957 Belair 2Dr Hdtp, 58,000 original miles, original never rebuilt 283 engine, 245hp, Dual Fours, Tremec TKO 600 5-speed, 3.70 gears, AACA Senior in 1985
previous trifives:
1955 Belair Convt
1956 210 2dr Sdn
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chronamyd
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06-18-12 05:43 PM - Post#2238896
In response to Snake
Hi Jake Their are 2 different pilot bearings. the standard size one is 1.095 od and the other one is 1.065 od. the part # for the large one is PB 656 and the part # for the smaller one is PB 656-P the P stands for powerglide. In the early days if a chevy was ordered with a power glide trans GM did not finish sizing the crank hole. I am going through this right now. Thanks Dwight
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