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 Page 5 of 5 « First<2345
Username Post: building a 383, things to think about        (Topic#131229)
grumpyvette 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts: 17164
grumpyvette
Age: 70
Loc: FLORIDA USA
Reg: 03-16-01
10-01-08 06:06 AM - Post#1532907    
    In response to Jim.Biron

the 1.6:1 ratio rockers everywhere will be fine!
(yes you really should upgrade to that crower cam)

IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!


Edited by grumpyvette on 10-01-08 07:12 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 




Jim.Biron 
"11th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts: 2956
Jim.Biron
Age: 67
Loc: Monterey, TN
Reg: 04-10-08
10-01-08 06:23 AM - Post#1532915    
    In response to grumpyvette

  • grumpyvette Said:
the 1.6:1 ratio rockers everywhere will be fine!



Now to see if I 'really' do need a cam. I'll have to wait for the weekend to get a dial and also I'll be chaking for leakdown in case I have abent valve.

As I said I really do appreciate your help. This has been GREAT!!

Jim
www.HudsonValleyCruise.com


 
stroked83 
Contributor
Posts: 240

Age: 26
Loc: central IL
Reg: 05-01-08
10-01-08 03:19 PM - Post#1533206    
    In response to Jim.Biron

that is very good information....

grumpy or anyone. i would like to have a
"mind dyno" just as of specs have all my money into the engine and dont have the money for a couple dyno runs...

nowhere else to post but 383 BUILDS.

-350 .06 over
-KB forged 13cc dished.
-9.8 compression
-5.7 forged scat rods
-scat cst crank
-trick flow 23 degree heads 64 CC
-40 head gasket
-lunati Voodoo SOLID ROLLER dur @.050 231/237 lift 555/566 LSA 110 Lash at .016
-1.5 roller rockers
-Cloyes dbl roller chain
-Victor JR. Intake
-Holley 750 double pumper
-Headman Headers 1 5/8 3in collectors
-Mallory Unilite


anybody want to chim in on the numbers...or has something relitivley close to these specs that has any numbers...

please throw out anything.

Thanks

83 silverado c-10 short bed
383ci lunati cam, dart heads, 750 demon, cal-tracs bars
8.2902 @ 83.15mph 1/8 mile 3950lbs


 
Jim.Biron 
"11th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts: 2956
Jim.Biron
Age: 67
Loc: Monterey, TN
Reg: 04-10-08
10-08-08 07:07 AM - Post#1537600    
    In response to Jim.Biron

  • Jim.Biron Said:
  • grumpyvette Said:
the 1.6:1 ratio rockers everywhere will be fine!



Now to see if I 'really' do need a cam. I'll have to wait for the weekend to get a dial and also I'll be chaking for leakdown in case I have abent valve.

As I said I really do appreciate your help. This has been GREAT!!




Ok, I got the bad news...
1) The flywheel is in fact a 3973457 (big Block)not a 3986394. So much for the vibration.
2) Looks like the cam may be bad as #8 doesn't lift as high as the rest.
3) Also #1 seems to leak down a lot worse than the other cyls.


So now some questions...
1) When I change the flywheel does it need to be balanced to the rest of the rotating assembly or will a new SFI 383-400 flywheel do the job?
2) I'm considering a new shortblock rather than redoing this one (I'll redo it later). Anyone hear of 'The Engine Store' (an eBAY vendor) They sell an INTERNALLY balanced 383 shortblock for $1699 with shipping included. Take a look at this.
Item # 150301374072
or
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CHEVY-383- STROKER-S...

I'm interested in any/all comments.

Jim
www.HudsonValleyCruise.com


 
grumpyvette 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts: 17164
grumpyvette
Age: 70
Loc: FLORIDA USA
Reg: 03-16-01
10-08-08 07:58 AM - Post#1537626    
    In response to Jim.Biron



THE PICTURE IS OF AN EXTERNALLY BALLANCED ASSEMBLY, NOTICE THE COUNTER WEIGHT ON THE LOWER FLEXPLATE AND THE THICK PARTIAL RIM ON THE DAMPER

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!


Edited by grumpyvette on 02-03-10 10:29 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Jim.Biron 
"11th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts: 2956
Jim.Biron
Age: 67
Loc: Monterey, TN
Reg: 04-10-08
10-08-08 08:13 AM - Post#1537641    
    In response to grumpyvette

  • grumpyvette Said:


THE PICTURE IS OF AN EXTERNALLY BALLANCED ASSEMBLY, NOTICE THE COUNTER WEIGHT ON THE LOWER FLEXPLATE AND THE THICK PARTIAL RIM ON THE DAMPER



No question there. However I think they said 'free internal balancing' I'll bet this was the only 'nice' pic they had. As many ads say... "the picture may not represent the exact item being offered."

Jim
www.HudsonValleyCruise.com


 
grumpyvette 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts: 17164
grumpyvette
Age: 70
Loc: FLORIDA USA
Reg: 03-16-01
10-08-08 10:22 AM - Post#1537731    
    In response to Jim.Biron

looking over the listed parts Im thinking youll be better off refurbishing your current block
youll have a much better parts list and the differance in cost will pay for a local shop to clean,bore & hone and add freeze plugs and cam bearings too your current block if necessary

http://www.ohiocrank.com/chevsb_rotate.html

383 Street Rodder
Price
SRP forged flat-top pistons
Forged I-beam 6" rods

5140 3.75 forged steel crank
Race bearings and rings

Internally balanced
$1,295

just keep in mind the other sellected components,cam,compresson ratio,quench,intake, heads and the oil system components will have a huge effect on the resulting combos durrtability and hp/tq

IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!


Edited by grumpyvette on 10-08-08 10:29 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Jim.Biron 
"11th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts: 2956
Jim.Biron
Age: 67
Loc: Monterey, TN
Reg: 04-10-08
10-09-08 07:38 AM - Post#1538255    
    In response to grumpyvette

  • grumpyvette Said:
looking over the listed parts Im thinking youll be better off refurbishing your current block
youll have a much better parts list and the differance in cost will pay for a local shop to clean,bore & hone and add freeze plugs and cam bearings too your current block if necessary

http://www.ohiocrank.com/chevsb_rotate.html

383 Street Rodder
Price
SRP forged flat-top pistons
Forged I-beam 6" rods

5140 3.75 forged steel crank
Race bearings and rings

Internally balanced
$1,295

just keep in mind the other sellected components,cam,compresson ratio,quench,intake, heads and the oil system components will have a huge effect on the resulting combos durrtability and hp/tq



I know I have a million questions BUT... :-)
Are you running internally or externally balance in your 383. Why did you choose that route?


Jim
www.HudsonValleyCruise.com


 
Jim.Biron 
"11th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts: 2956
Jim.Biron
Age: 67
Loc: Monterey, TN
Reg: 04-10-08
10-09-08 07:40 AM - Post#1538259    
    In response to Jim.Biron

  • Jim.Biron Said:
  • grumpyvette Said:
looking over the listed parts Im thinking youll be better off refurbishing your current block
youll have a much better parts list and the differance in cost will pay for a local shop to clean,bore & hone and add freeze plugs and cam bearings too your current block if necessary

http://www.ohiocrank.com/chevsb_rotate.html

383 Street Rodder
Price
SRP forged flat-top pistons
Forged I-beam 6" rods

5140 3.75 forged steel crank
Race bearings and rings

Internally balanced
$1,295

just keep in mind the other sellected components,cam,compresson ratio,quench,intake, heads and the oil system components will have a huge effect on the resulting combos durrtability and hp/tq



I know I have a million questions BUT... :-)
Are you running internally or externally balanced in your 383. Why did you choose that route?





Jim
www.HudsonValleyCruise.com


 
grumpyvette 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts: 17164
grumpyvette
Age: 70
Loc: FLORIDA USA
Reg: 03-16-01
10-09-08 07:48 AM - Post#1538265    
    In response to Jim.Biron

Im running an internally ballanced, fully forged rotating assembly, with 7/16" L19 arp rod bolt rods,
simply because the extra cost is far less up front than a rotating assembly failure at high rpms would result in, you need to realize that comeing up with a few hundred dollars extra in an engine builds parts costs, while a major P.I.T.A. and something that will slow progress, is still a wise investment IF YOU INTEND to beat the #$%^ out of the engine occasionally by racing it and its well worth the extra expence in piece of mind, in not expecting things to come apart if your engine exceeds lets say, 6500rpm, with a 383 and its 3.75" stroke, where your getting into risky territory with cast cranks and stock style rods

I posted a list of my current 383 engine components earlier in the thread
http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

I recently got asked about the cost of machining a block , heads etc.obviously what needs to be done and what your intended use for the engine is has almost as much to do with the cost as the blocks true condition and what the machine shop charges.
this has never been a cheap hobby, especially if you want things done correctly so they last under high stress conditions
I know many guys are staggered by the costs a machine-shop charge's for the machine work, and thats one reason that that super bargain block you find, on craigs list or e-bay for a couple hundred dollars could very easily cost you an additional $700-$1500 in machine work alone
youll be amazed at what most machine shops charge for work (labor) you can do on your own if you have a few tools and your willing to do some research into whats required, obviously you can,t do major machine work like decking or boring a block but theses a great deal of time intensive and expensive work you can do!
really simple things like knowing how to use a spring micrometer, caliper, and plasti-gauge and a spring compressor, and die grinder, and some research into how to do things correctly and why certain modifications benefit an engine build can save you thousands of dollars in machine shop costs

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!


Edited by grumpyvette on 06-24-14 05:38 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Jim.Biron 
"11th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts: 2956
Jim.Biron
Age: 67
Loc: Monterey, TN
Reg: 04-10-08
10-09-08 08:44 AM - Post#1538287    
    In response to grumpyvette

  • grumpyvette Said:
Im running an internally ballanced, fully forged rotating assembly, with 7/16" L19 arp rod bolt rods,
simply because the extra cost is far less up front than a rotating assembly failure at high rpms would result in, you need to realize that comeing up with a few hundred dollars extra in an engine builds parts costs, while a major P.I.T.A. and something that will slow progress, is still a wise investment IF YOU INTEND to beat the #$%^ out of the engine occasionally by racing it and its well worth the extra expence in piece of mind, in not expecting things to come apart if your engine exceeds lets say, 6500rpm, with a 383 and its 3.75" stroke, where your getting into risky territory with cast cranks and stock style rods

I posted a list of my current 383 engine components earlier in the thread



I looked over the list again and had to wipe my keyboard from the drool.

I did notice the 5140 in your suggestion vs. a 4340 on your crank. Should I consider the extra $$$ for a 4340 considering ony occassional beating?

Jim
www.HudsonValleyCruise.com


 
grumpyvette 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts: 17164
grumpyvette
Age: 70
Loc: FLORIDA USA
Reg: 03-16-01
10-09-08 08:58 AM - Post#1538292    
    In response to Jim.Biron

  • Jim.Biron Said:
  • grumpyvette Said:
Im running an internally ballanced, fully forged rotating assembly, with 7/16" L19 arp rod bolt rods,
simply because the extra cost is far less up front than a rotating assembly failure at high rpms would result in, you need to realize that comeing up with a few hundred dollars extra in an engine builds parts costs, while a major P.I.T.A. and something that will slow progress, is still a wise investment IF YOU INTEND to beat the #$%^ out of the engine occasionally by racing it and its well worth the extra expence in piece of mind, in not expecting things to come apart if your engine exceeds lets say, 6500rpm, with a 383 and its 3.75" stroke, where your getting into risky territory with cast cranks and stock style rods

I posted a list of my current 383 engine components earlier in the thread



I looked over the list again and had to wipe my keyboard from the drool.

I did notice the 5140 in your suggestion vs. a 4340 on your crank. Should I consider the extra $$$ for a 4340 considering ony occassional beating?



a cast steel crank like the SCAT 9000 series (not cast iron) will work in many cases but its not nearly as strong as a forged 5140 steel crank which is fine,even for racing in most cases, that steel was not an option I had when purchasing my crank,and Id point out the cost and strength differance is minor between the two forged steels so either way your fine on a street strip engine


IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!


Edited by grumpyvette on 10-09-08 09:01 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
442mike 
Lurker
Posts: 4

Reg: 08-04-08
11-01-08 01:58 PM - Post#1554805    
    In response to grumpyvette

I am in the infantile stages of my 383 build and need some advice. I have my gen 1 block from the machine shop clearanced, bored (4.03), honed with something around 300/330. I would like to put as close to 400hp/tq to the wheels I could get between 5200-5800 rpm.

But also have some other things to think about - the block is a 2 bolt main, and I'm not too worried about the performance if I bought main studs for it (what else will help strengthen the block?). I don't have much money (in college right now), but will save for quality parts.

I want to run around a 280-290 cam and have heard AFR has the best flowing heads out of the box. I am at the rotating assembly stage, my question is where do I start ?

Do I first buy the heads and have them flow tested? (I'm not building a race car). Do I buy the cam first and match everything else? Or do I put a stout crank/rod/piston assembly in before the next step?-> which is what I want to do. (...with help from older guys who know what they're doing of course)

Edit- heres the link to an old thread I forgot about, In that time I've saved up a bunch of cash and am ready to buy some parts.
http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?fi...



Edited by 442mike on 11-01-08 02:23 PM. Reason for edit: link

 
grumpyvette 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts: 17164
grumpyvette
Age: 70
Loc: FLORIDA USA
Reg: 03-16-01
11-11-08 03:14 PM - Post#1561873    
    In response to 442mike

first your link doesn,t seem to work.
you have read thru the rest of this thread correct?


you START by listing components that match your intended goal, and following a known combo is probably the best route, then you do a few DD2000 runs to verify your in the ball park,BEFORE BUYING MATCHED COMPONENTS THAT MATCH YOUR GOALS

ok we need to know the car weight, the rear gear ratio the tire dia. the type of transmission, and if youve got an auto trans the stall speed on the tq converter, do you need to run pump gas? is it mostly for the street or street/strip use, and we also need to know if you need to pass emission tests and what your budget and realistic use for the car will be ?...btw you can,t possiably sellect the correct cam, heads,intake and headers with out that info, and we need to know your skill level and available tools

and you surely don,t need the expence of the afr heads if you have a 400hp goal if you want to keep cost down a bit,
fill in some answers and ILL suggest a few components

Let me give you a bit of hard won wisdom that took me decades to fully understand,... if your ever going to build a well thought thru car & engine combo youll be happy with its takes planing and a consistent effort and sustained budget allocation to completing the project and you need both the tools and a place to work, you need to do the research and NOT change goals every few weeks or buy random BARGAIN parts

yes it may take you several days to read thru the links and many sub links, it will save you hundreds of dollars and months of work so take the time!


(1) decide on exactly what you want when your finished and think thru a reasonable budget and time frame
this means if you really want a big block corvette don,t waste time and money building a 350 sbc in a caprice just because its available and cheap.

(2) have a place to work and get a decent engine stand to work on,you don,t need much more than a small tool selection and space for an engine stand with an engine on it and a plastic tarp , many tools can be rented or borrowed, but you do need to do the required research and buy and correctly assemble the correct matched parts
(you can always sell it when your done if this was a one time project)

(3) have a second transportation vehicle or build your performance engine slowly over time correctly,and separately is by far the better route here!
constant minor changes and parts up grades resulting in miss matched components to the primary transportation vehicle ALWAYS eventually causes you problems

(4) don,t buy parts that don,t match your goal just because you get a SCREAMING DEAL on the parts PRICE,...ESPECIALLY USED PARTS

(5) don,t forget the IMPROVED , BRAKES, DRIVE TRAIN GEARING, SUSPENSION,TIRES AND COOLING SYSTEM, ELECTRICAL AND LUBRICATION UPGRADES THAT WILL BE REQUIRED BEFORE you install the new high performance engine your building



RELATED INFO
http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!


Edited by grumpyvette on 11-05-11 06:51 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
stroked83 
Contributor
Posts: 240

Age: 26
Loc: central IL
Reg: 05-01-08
11-21-08 11:30 AM - Post#1568647    
    In response to grumpyvette

i set down did millions of research. Got the combo i wanted and the goal

i started with rotating assembly

350 .06 over
-KB forged 13cc dished.
-9.8 compression w? 64cc
-5.7 forged scat rods w/ 7/16 capscrews
-scat crank 9000

i have a idea of 450 475 horse.
but bigger cam and nice heads will get you there...

and i think w/ flywheel and balancer bearings rings all balanced from scat was 1300 to my door

83 silverado c-10 short bed
383ci lunati cam, dart heads, 750 demon, cal-tracs bars
8.2902 @ 83.15mph 1/8 mile 3950lbs


 
Jim.Biron 
"11th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts: 2956
Jim.Biron
Age: 67
Loc: Monterey, TN
Reg: 04-10-08
11-29-08 07:13 AM - Post#1573624    
    In response to Jim.Biron

  • Jim.Biron Said:
  • Jim.Biron Said:
  • grumpyvette Said:
the 1.6:1 ratio rockers everywhere will be fine!



Now to see if I 'really' do need a cam. I'll have to wait for the weekend to get a dial and also I'll be chaking for leakdown in case I have abent valve.

As I said I really do appreciate your help. This has been GREAT!!




Ok, I got the bad news...
1) The flywheel is in fact a 3973457 (big Block)not a 3986394. So much for the vibration.
2) Looks like the cam may be bad as #8 doesn't lift as high as the rest.
3) Also #1 seems to leak down a lot worse than the other cyls.


So now some questions...
1) When I change the flywheel does it need to be balanced to the rest of the rotating assembly or will a new SFI 383-400 flywheel do the job?
2) I'm considering a new shortblock rather than redoing this one (I'll redo it later). Anyone hear of 'The Engine Store' (an eBAY vendor) They sell an INTERNALLY balanced 383 shortblock for $1699 with shipping included. Take a look at this.
Item # 150301374072
or
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CHEVY-383- STROKER-S...

I'm interested in any/all comments.



Well, I finally got to replacing the flywheel with a 400 one and guess what... Still vibrates the heck out of me beginning at 3500 or so. Looks like I may have more problems that I thought.
So now its going to the shop one final time this year... yanking the engine and seeing just what the heck is going on. I've found a good shop (one that does race engines for a road course team) and I'll have them look over my setup. Geez... this is driving me crazy!


Jim
www.HudsonValleyCruise.com


 
383camaro91 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 2

Reg: 02-02-10
02-02-10 06:36 PM - Post#1855187    
    In response to Jim.Biron

grumpy i have a budget of around a 1000$ to rebuild a chevy 350 into a 383. what should i buy to get the most bang for my buck the 350 currently has 882 heads



 
383camaro91 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 2

Reg: 02-02-10
02-02-10 09:09 PM - Post#1855307    
    In response to 383camaro91

i forgot to say its goin in a 91 camaro ill prolly end up changin the gears and m not sure what size tires they are beacause i havent baught the car yet also should i have it bored out and if so how much should i buy different heads and i can hoan and port match and reface valves



Edited by 383camaro91 on 02-02-10 09:36 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 




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