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Username Post: Erson TQ40 - Has anyone used it?        (Topic#117614)
astrojet427 
Member
Posts: 98
astrojet427
Loc: Vancouver, B.C.
Reg: 11-22-05
11-23-05 05:34 PM - Post#822083    

I was planning on using the new Voodoo 262 in a stock 350 that has 9.3:1 compression in a '72 Corvette, M20 tranny, and 3:36 gears.

The TQ40 was mentioned in the Car Craft Jan/06 issue. TQ40 Duration @ .050 is 220/228; lift .472/.472; LSA 110. Similar to Voodoo, but Voodoo has LSA 112. I'm giving Erson some consideration because I used their TQ20 in a motor in the early 80s and was happy with performance. I kinda forgot about Erson, but I know they use billet cores, and I'm still hearing about worn lobe issues with the new fast ramp cams.

Anyone used the TQ40 in a 350? If so, how was the idle and vacuum levels. Any comments on the power band also greatly appreciated. thanks.
1967 Impala SS. 327-Turbo 400; 12 bolt-3.55 gears. A few photos of my '67.

1972 Corvette Convertible Mille Miglia Red 4 speed.

1963 Cadillac Eldo-Triple Black.


 
grumpyvette 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts: 16142
grumpyvette
Age: 66
Loc: FLORIDA USA
Reg: 03-16-01
Re: Erson TQ40 - Has anyone used it?
11-24-05 05:33 AM - Post#822084    
    In response to astrojet427

http://go.mrgasket.com/brands.aspx?BrandID=7

http://go.mrgasket.com/pdf/Chevrolet.pdf

yeah, Ive used that grind on occasion, it makes for a noticable idle lope and good mid range power in a 350,about 2500rpm-6000rpm, ERSON, is one of those older cam companies that just never became as popular as CRANE,ISKY OR CROWER,ETC. but they still make some great cams.
keep in mind , most guys that have problems with cams USUALLY fall into one of several catagorys, those that

(1)they fail to check and CORRECT CLEARANCES

(2)they fail to match the gearing and stall to the application

(3)they fail to match the compression to the cam timing

(4)those guys that don,t match the rest of the combos components, or follow the break-in procedures

READ AND FOLLOW DIRRECTIONS, the cam companies really WANT YOU to be successful, most give you good advice but many guys ignore those little gems and find out later WHY they were pointed out
I can,t even remember all the times guys told me (cam XYZ SUCKS) then on looking into it, they had failed to do or match or clearance SEVERAL things correctly...HARDLY the cams fault

your combo seems to be reasonably well matched to that cam,the manual trans is a big help, but if I was going to install it ID talk to the tech guys at ERSON, and ask a few questions just to be sure, your not forgetting something, and Id use 1.6:1 ratio rockers if I had a set handy

 
greg_moreira 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 3264

Reg: 10-06-03
Re: Erson TQ40 - Has anyone used it?
11-24-05 07:31 AM - Post#822085    
    In response to astrojet427

Here is some good general info on cam cores.

The only trouble I have seen with cast iron cores is in the DESIGN of the cores themselves, not the material they are made of. Whenever you have too sharp a radius between the barrel of a cam and a lobe/journal, you can have stress points that cause a cam to break. This has been the major cause of snapped cams in the late 90s, early 2000s. The only good thing was that most of them snapped right in front of the distributor gear, so that the engine stopped firing, but all the valves kept turning correctly. Of course, if a rod hits anywhere on the cam, it'll break, but that's not the cam's fault.....
P55 cores are made by Engine Power Components, I believe they're in Muskegon, Michigan, and they are Comp Cams' major supplier. The P55 cores have a little more carbon on the nose---supposedly 55 Rockwell C, and so resist high valve spring open pressures better. Of course the design of the cam changes everything---Low negative accel on the nose equals well-rounded lobes, which resist high open pressures even better, and high negative accel on the nose equals more pointy lobes, which require harder cams to resist wear.
The $25 surcharge is about $20 profit.....
Steels used in hydraulic roller or solid roller cams are another story.....
The 1st 2 numbers refer to the main alloy, the last 2 to the amount of carbon in the steel. Some common alloys are 8620 and 1050---The 86 means the main 2 alloying elements in that steel are Chrominum and Molybedum---spelling is atrocious--- and the 20 means that there is .20%--That's right, 2/10s of 1% Carbon--Carbon in the steel. This is too low to be hard enough as it is, so 8620 is heat-treated to carburize it. It requires 24 hours or more in a heat-treat furnance to put Carbon .100" deep, and the purpose of the Copper coating is to prevent Carbon from entering where it is not wanted. The Carbon enters only the surface of the lobes and the journals, not the sides or the barrel. Those parts remain tough, and the rubbing surfaces are hard.
On the 1050 steel, the 50 means there is .50% Carbon, enough to be induction-hardened. The depth of heat-treat depends on the frequency of the induction-hardening waves, low frequency pentrates deeper, but requires longer time, newer higher-powered high-frequency induction hardeners give just as hard a heat-treat on the surface, but do not penetrate so deep.
Steels such as 8650/8660 can take very deep heat treats.
Crane, Cam Motion, Andrews, and LSM all use 8620 steel, and this requires them to offer a number of different cores for each engine.
CamShaft Machine Company uses 8660, and this is who supplies Lunati.
Engine Power Components did use 1078, but I am not sure what they use now, as I have not bought from them in the 2000s. They make those Austempered Steel---Cast steel---cores for Comp Cams.
The 1050 is what Ford uses for their hydraulic rollers, and several companies offer that material for the Fords. With proper heat treating it does not require a bronze gear.
Either 8620 or 8660 requires a Bronze gear, as does 1078. Only by using a cast iron distributor gear, such as the EverWear gear, can you get away from Bronze distributor gears for roller cams.
There are also good cores, and crappy cores, available from overseas.


Anyways, some of that applies, some doesnt. As far as billet....thats a roller thing. Your talkin about hydro cams, and thats a different story. As far as the P55 core....you can get any cam made on a P55 core and its a good idea. Although comp is supplied by the company that makes the P55 cores, you dont get a comp on a P55 unless you ask. Just like anywhere. As far as I know, comp is also the only ones who make cast core rollers, but they do billet too like everyone else. If you were going roller, and going comp, if they make your particular cam on a cast core, tell em to make your cam on billet. Cast core rollers dont like big spring pressures....but roller cams like generally big spring pressures....go figure! Thats why you see lots of cast core rollers either failing or floating the valves. Depending on the cam, if you run enough spring to keep the valves from floating, the cam dies. If you keep the spring pressures low enough so that the cam survives, the valves often float. Cast core rollers are a bad idea.

Either cam you are looking at will be a good match. The voodoo cams dont have quite the issues that a lot of your modern aggressive cams do. Slight adjustments to the lobe keep them aggressive but much more maneagable on the valvetrain. With any hydro camshft, if your concerned about failure, the upgrade to a P55 core is not a bad idea.....and good lifters are a plus. Some tried and true GM lifters are a good way to go, and there are numerous other GOOD hydro lifters out there. Good lifters and a good core and proper break in will really up the chances of having the cam live.

That erson would probably be real safe. The voodoo will be faster(more aggressive) and still safer than your typical aggressive hydraulic flat tappet....and once again, for an extra few bucks you can get a better core to make it better yet. The wider LSA aint a big deal especially with the milder gears. And, if your exhaust is only marginal, a wider LSA will cut down on intake reversion.

Generally speaking, tighter LSA angles provide intake lift at top dead center(during overlap). The overlap is "supposed" to help scavengine(the escaping exhaust gasses draw on the intake port to help fill the cylinders better). This only works if the exhaust does what its supposed to. What happens if you have restrictive exhaust? With more overlap(well, more intake lift at TDC), you have have a better chance for more scavenging. But, if the exhaust gasses are backed up(due to a weak overall exhaust setup_...they wont scavenge, they will block the intake port and cause reversion. With a wider LSA and less lift at TDC(and typically less overlap), you have less of an issue of the exhaust gasses blocking the intake and less reversion can result(thats good). This is why flowmaster has a warning to NOT run a tight LSA cam with their mufflers. Their chambered mufflers dont flow too stellar....with a tight LSA(thats supposed to allow greater scavenging) its possible that you can end up in a situation where you have more reversion rather than more scavengine(no good). Thats dependant on the whole combo but having that extra lift at TDC that you generally see(cause of the tighter LSA) can hurt more than it helps in some combos.

Stock chevy heads are notorious for having weaker exhaust ports and if you have a stock exhaust system as well...the wider LSA may be a benefit cause it can help keep the exhaust gasses from "effing" up the intake flow. Either way, without splitting any more hairs, both of your cam decisions are good ones and either will run very well over the stock cam. Both should have adequate vacuum as well. Go with your guy I guess hehe.

 
astrojet427 
Member
Posts: 98
astrojet427
Loc: Vancouver, B.C.
Reg: 11-22-05
Re: Erson TQ40 - Has anyone used it?
11-24-05 06:09 PM - Post#822086    
    In response to greg_moreira

Grumpy and Greg, I'd just like to say thanks for responding. I appreciate the time it must take to provide such detailed responses.

Good info for anyone on cores, and wise words of wisdom on cam selection.

Based on your comments, sounds like the TQ40, compared to the Voodoo 262, will have slightly less bottom end and a more noticeable lope - which is OK for me. Which will make more power, will depend on the complementing engine parts, and perhaps newer technology of the voodoo may also be a factor. Vacuum idle should not be a concern with either cam.

My car is just an every other weekend driver, not interested in racing anyone - just want to cruise, and for it sound a little meaner at idle than a station wagon. Heads are small chamber Chevy 492 castings, headers, and still stock 2" exhaust, plan to upgrade to 2.5".

Some guys have been trying to sell me an XE268. From what I've read online I think it's too big and bottem end will be just too soggy in my application.

I'll definitely give the techies at Erson a call to get their opinion.

Thanks again for your help.
1967 Impala SS. 327-Turbo 400; 12 bolt-3.55 gears. A few photos of my '67.

1972 Corvette Convertible Mille Miglia Red 4 speed.

1963 Cadillac Eldo-Triple Black.


 
boldm 
Member
Posts: 40

Loc: alberta
Reg: 01-23-05
Re: Erson TQ40 - Has anyone used it?
11-28-05 08:32 PM - Post#822087    
    In response to astrojet427

I have used the TQ40 camshaft, although I had it custom ground with a 114LSA. Overall I was happy, and have been happy with erson for the 20 years I used em.

One thing, the lobe technology on the TQ40 which is their high flow series lobe is probably approaching 20 years whereas the voodoo series is the most modern available developed by UDHarold which many people have high respect for.

I'm not knocking Erson, just wondering if the voodoo isn't maybe a better choice?
84 full size Chev Silverado, SBC406 750DP Edel super victor AFR210cc elim heads, FT's, UD HAROLD SR 243/249/112 LSA 1 3/4 hedman, 700R4, 3000 stall, 4.10, 3"dynamax ultraflow, H pipe, 11.85 @ 113 mph, thru mufflers, 1.68 60ft.


 
rumrumm 
"13th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1878
rumrumm
Loc: Macomb, IL
Reg: 10-18-01
Re: Erson TQ40 - Has anyone used it?
11-29-05 03:31 AM - Post#822088    
    In response to boldm

bolm has a good point. The Voodoo cam will probably give you more hp and torque. If it was my decision, I'd go with the Voodoo cam. UDHarold really knows his stuff.
Lynn

"There's no 12-step program for stupid."


383 sbc, Eagle, AFR, SRP, CompCams, Edelbrock, Sanderson. Dyno #'s: 450 hp @ 5700, 468 ft. lbs. torque @ 4300.

http://photo.net/photos/Lynn%20Johanso n


 
astrojet427 
Member
Posts: 98
astrojet427
Loc: Vancouver, B.C.
Reg: 11-22-05
Re: Erson TQ40 - Has anyone used it?
11-29-05 08:52 PM - Post#822089    
    In response to rumrumm

Boldm & RumRum - I have to agree that with the Voodoo being a UDHarold latest design, its probably a very efficient piece.

I just haven't found any posts on how the voodoo 262 behaved in a mild 350 and its idle characteristics. The Voodoo website says "excellent driveability" - so I'm guessing that means a wide torque curve. No comment from Lunati on the idle.

Does anyone know if it has any kind of a noticeable lope to it?? I had an Erson TQ20 and a CC HE268 years ago - good cams, but I can't say those cams had any noticeable lope to them.

GrumpyVette commented that the TQ40 "makes for a noticable idle lope and good mid range power" in a mild 350.

Can anyone comment on the idle characteristics of the Voodoo 262 in a mild 350? Lope at idle: none; barely noticeable; noticeable; very noticeable given a 9.25 CR

Thanks in advance.
1967 Impala SS. 327-Turbo 400; 12 bolt-3.55 gears. A few photos of my '67.

1972 Corvette Convertible Mille Miglia Red 4 speed.

1963 Cadillac Eldo-Triple Black.


 
rumrumm 
"13th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1878
rumrumm
Loc: Macomb, IL
Reg: 10-18-01
Re: Erson TQ40 - Has anyone used it?
11-30-05 03:09 AM - Post#822090    
    In response to astrojet427

Put up a post called "How to Contact UDHarold" and someone will tell you how to contact him. He hangs out at one of the websites here--one of the Chevelle sites, I think.
Lynn

"There's no 12-step program for stupid."


383 sbc, Eagle, AFR, SRP, CompCams, Edelbrock, Sanderson. Dyno #'s: 450 hp @ 5700, 468 ft. lbs. torque @ 4300.

http://photo.net/photos/Lynn%20Johanso n


 
grumpyvette 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts: 16142
grumpyvette
Age: 66
Loc: FLORIDA USA
Reg: 03-16-01
Re: Erson TQ40 - Has anyone used it?
11-30-05 03:26 AM - Post#822091    
    In response to rumrumm

"How to Contact UDHarold"

Lunati technical support via phone Monday through Friday 7AM to 5PM CST @
662 892-1500.


or post over at

http://www.chevelles.com

 
Glenn_McAtee 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 4521

Reg: 06-20-01
Re: Erson TQ40 - Has anyone used it?
11-30-05 04:06 AM - Post#822092    
    In response to grumpyvette

Quote:

"How to Contact UDHarold"

Lunati technical support via phone Monday through Friday 7AM to 5PM CST @
662 892-1500.


or post over at

http://www.chevelles.com




Harold doesn't work for Lunati any more, they did some "corporate downsizing" but he said he'll still be happy to give advice on their cams and seemed to have no ill feelings over the split. You can find him over at Team Chevelle.

 
rumrumm 
"13th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1878
rumrumm
Loc: Macomb, IL
Reg: 10-18-01
Re: Erson TQ40 - Has anyone used it?
11-30-05 04:06 AM - Post#822093    
    In response to grumpyvette

Thanks, Grumpy.
Lynn

"There's no 12-step program for stupid."


383 sbc, Eagle, AFR, SRP, CompCams, Edelbrock, Sanderson. Dyno #'s: 450 hp @ 5700, 468 ft. lbs. torque @ 4300.

http://photo.net/photos/Lynn%20Johanso n


 
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