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Username Post: computer relearn procedure        (Topic#107549)
jsburb 
Member
Posts: 75

Reg: 06-05-05
07-22-05 07:13 PM - Post#745692    

It's a long story, but had an independent garage replace the intake gasket on my 99 Suburban. When I picked it up, check engine light was on. They hooked up their diagnostic computer, found there was a problem with the distributor timing. Their solution for this was to go through a relearn procedure for the computer. To do this, the tech put the tranny in drive, stood on the brakes, and reved the engine up to 4500 rpm repeatedly for about 5 minutes. This didn't fix the problem, so I had to leave it with them for another half day. When I got it back, check engine light was off, but there is an engine knock that was not there before - tech says it sounds like a bad rod bearing. Of course, he also said that what they did would not have caused this, unless it was about to go out already. Does this sound right, or did they fry my engine and now are trying to shirk responsibility? My feeling is that if the repair had been done right in the first place, they never would have had to do this relearn procedure. Tech says not so, that whenever the distributor is out, that is what they do? Does this sound right to you GM techs?

 
steve v 
Senior Member
Posts: 986
steve v
Loc: n. cal
Reg: 05-08-04
Re: computer relearn procedure
07-22-05 07:57 PM - Post#745693    
    In response to jsburb

hmmmm.....doesn't sound good. Seems to me the mechanics are trying to swindle you. Take your truck to a couple of reputable shops in your area and get some other opinions. Then go from there. Keep us updated.

 
steve v 
Senior Member
Posts: 986
steve v
Loc: n. cal
Reg: 05-08-04
Re: computer relearn procedure
07-22-05 07:57 PM - Post#745694    
    In response to steve v

oh, and good luck!

 
GM-Tech 
Super Senior Member
Posts: 4157
GM-Tech
Loc: South Florida
Reg: 06-27-03
Re: computer relearn procedure
07-23-05 12:55 AM - Post#745695    
    In response to jsburb

Quote:

To do this, the tech put the tranny in drive, stood on the brakes, and reved the engine up to 4500 rpm repeatedly for about 5 minutes.




What the heck was he smoking? He obviously had no clue what he was doing.

As to the rod knock. Doing this stupid procedure shouldn't have caused that in an engine that was in good condition, but who knows.

If they're denying responsibility for the knock, you probably won't get any satisfaction without either going to your local county consumer relations board (ours regulates vehicle repair shops... dunno if you have that) or you'll have to get a lawyer.

If you brought this in to me, I doubt there is any way I could PROVE that they caused it. I may THINK they caused it, and I may SAY they caused it, but opinions are like elbows... everyone has two. This means squat in a court of law.
.


 
Lucky13MN 
Special Senior Member
Posts: 5592
Lucky13MN
Reg: 06-20-01
Re: computer relearn procedure
07-23-05 01:06 AM - Post#745696    
    In response to GM-Tech

Wow, that's complete BS!

Since when are brake stands a routine procedure?
2001 Silverado:
  • S&B Intake
  • Corsa Exhaust
  • Z06 Cam
  • Air Bags
  • HP Tuners
  • A 'few' other things


 
larstonX 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 2228
larstonX
Loc: World's Imaging Center
Reg: 11-11-02
Re: computer relearn procedure
07-23-05 01:26 AM - Post#745697    
    In response to jsburb

Well first off, I'd hardly call that guy a tech. I wouldn't be surprised if they just pulled the check engine light, or just reset the codes.
The only thing their "relearn procedure" did was abuse your engine and transmission. For some people revving the heck out of the engine is the solution to most problems
It is possible they caused the rod knock by letting some piece of dirt/gasket/crud/something fall into the lifter valley when the intake was off, and it found its way to a bearing.


 
CaptainK 
Senior Member
Posts: 8242
CaptainK
Loc: Maryland
Reg: 02-25-02
Re: computer relearn procedure
07-23-05 02:24 AM - Post#745698    
    In response to jsburb

Sounds like some serious crap here!!

Good luck with it, I hope that you are able to get some satisfaction out of this!
'99 Silverado (NBS)


 
Anonymous 

Re: computer relearn procedure
07-23-05 10:55 AM - Post#745699    
    In response to jsburb

If they replaced the intake manifold gasket because it was leaking coolant, some coolant may have been getting into the oil previous to the gasket change. If that's the case they probably didn't cause the rod bearing failure but they may have accelerated it's showing up. I've seen a few of these engines fail just like yours after an intake gasket failure.

 
jsburb 
Member
Posts: 75

Reg: 06-05-05
The rest of the story
07-25-05 08:31 AM - Post#745700    
    In response to jsburb

Quote:

It's a long story, but had an independent garage replace the intake gasket on my 99 Suburban. When I picked it up, check engine light was on. They hooked up their diagnostic computer, found there was a problem with the distributor timing. Their solution for this was to go through a relearn procedure for the computer. To do this, the tech put the tranny in drive, stood on the brakes, and reved the engine up to 4500 rpm repeatedly for about 5 minutes. This didn't fix the problem, so I had to leave it with them for another half day. When I got it back, check engine light was off, but there is an engine knock that was not there before - tech says it sounds like a bad rod bearing. Of course, he also said that what they did would not have caused this, unless it was about to go out already. Does this sound right, or did they fry my engine and now are trying to shirk responsibility? My feeling is that if the repair had been done right in the first place, they never would have had to do this relearn procedure. Tech says not so, that whenever the distributor is out, that is what they do? Does this sound right to you GM techs?



OK, so now that I know you folks are thinking the same way I am, here is the rest of the story. (I told you it was a long one.) I started the intake gasket job at home, but due to a family emergency did not have time to finish. Had it towed into the shop. Status when it went in was distributor out (yes it was marked), manifold free but not yet removed, most other disassemby completed. The shop said they would have no trouble completing the job, and said that the way I had marked the distributor was fine. They completed the job, and called me to pick up. That's where the problems started. After picking it up the second time, they said that they had been unable to get the engine to run right with the distributor in its original position, and that they did not know why. Also they said that they heard the knock. They stated that after hearing the knock, they checked the oil, and found it to be "almost" 2 quarts low, and that adding oil did not help the knock. Now this is my wife's vehicle, and I can't attest to the oil level when it went in, but bear in mind that this was a non-running vehicle that was towed in to the shop. The work order/receipt that they gave me stated "We finished project - engine light came on - had cam/crank sync. code - while resetting sync. engine started to knock from rod bearing. Checked oil - was 2 qts. low - had to index dist. 1 tooth off from factory mark to reset sync - engine has rod knock." So, what do you guys think? Do I just take my lumps on this and let them off the hook, or do I look for some satisfaction from the shop? My feeling is that on a non-running engine, a good mechanic would make sure it is ready to run (oil level, etc.) before firing it up. This, combined with the fact that it appears they don't know how to set the distributor properly, makes me feel they are responsible for the current state of my motor. GM Tech - I would especially appreciate hearing your opinion on this. Thanks.

 
brad6841 
Senior Member
Posts: 478
brad6841
Reg: 03-10-05
Re: computer relearn procedure
07-25-05 09:53 AM - Post#745701    
    In response to jsburb

Quote:

Their solution for this was to go through a relearn procedure for the computer. To do this, the tech put the tranny in drive, stood on the brakes, and reved the engine up to 4500 rpm repeatedly for about 5 minutes.




This is the most retarted relear procedure ever. I took my 1992 Lumina to an independent garage to have the coil pac replaced. After they replaced it the car would not idle properly, I knew what the problem was from once before when I had this problem. The fix was to reprogram the computer with the correct idle RPM. When the batter was disconnected on the 3.1 V6 in that car the computer's idle was reset. The independent garage had no clue was I was talking about. I took the car up to my local Chevy dealer and 15 min and $30 later the car idled fine. The procedure included the service manager hooking up a hand held reprogrammer and lowering the idle untill the car stalled and then setting the idle a little bit higher than the stall speed. This shows that your independent garage had no clue what what up. Like the others have said though I don't know that there is a why for you to prove that they are in the wrong. Get some other opinions from some other garages and use that as ammunition. Gook Luck and I hope you get some gratification.
Brad
2001 2500HD 4X4 LS


 
nodakbassmaster 
Super Senior Member
Posts: 4397
nodakbassmaster
Loc: Poorhouse, SD
Reg: 03-14-04
Re: computer relearn procedure
07-25-05 10:24 AM - Post#745702    
    In response to brad6841

that relearn is bunk. I'da made him stop immediatly and see if he could show me where he got that procedure without pulling down his pants..........
Richard

'09 Silverado 3500HD CC LB D/A LTZ Z71, Mods Annonymous Member #3


 
larstonX 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 2228
larstonX
Loc: World's Imaging Center
Reg: 11-11-02
Re: The rest of the story
07-25-05 10:54 AM - Post#745703    
    In response to jsburb

They didn't change the oil after replacing an intake manifold gasket?
I think it's your word against theirs. They say it came in apart, they fixed it and it had a knock. They never heard it run before, so it's your word that it didn't knock before they touched it.
At least that's the way I think any legal authority would look at it. Could be wrong, no harm in asking but I think you're out of luck


 
GM-Tech 
Super Senior Member
Posts: 4157
GM-Tech
Loc: South Florida
Reg: 06-27-03
Re: The rest of the story
07-26-05 06:57 AM - Post#745704    
    In response to jsburb

[quote GM Tech - I would especially appreciate hearing your opinion on this. Thanks.




Well, I hate to say it but if you brought us a non-running engine, if it knocked when I got it running, I wouldn't accept any responsibility. If it doesn't run, how would I know what condition the engine was in when you brought it in?

Two quarts low is not a great thing, but I doubt that would cause a rod bearing to fail. *maybe* under the conditions they operated it. BTW, there's no way they could get the engine to 4500 rpms IN DRIVE, unless your trans/torque converter was toast too.

I don't have a good answer for you. There are too many variables that don't add up (like the brake torquing to 4500 rpms).
.


 
jsburb 
Member
Posts: 75

Reg: 06-05-05
Re: The rest of the story
07-26-05 08:24 AM - Post#745705    
    In response to GM-Tech

GM-Tech - Thanks for the reply. I know this is an unusual situation, but here's the thing. They had the vehicle running, even called me to pick it up. When I started it, there was no knock, just as there was no knock during their test drive. But while they were trying to figure out why the check engine light was still on, the knock started. As for the revving to 4500 rpm in drive, I assumed it was in drive, because he asked me not to stand in front of the vehicle while he did this. The 4500 figure is from the tech, however - he said it is standard procedure. I suppose I will have to be satisfied with never going to that shop again, but I know what I had before they touched my engine, and I know what I have now. I just may not be able to prove they are responsible. Thanks again.

 
silvervortek 
Senior Member
Posts: 732

Loc: Georgia USA/ west coast I...
Reg: 10-10-04
Re: computer relearn procedure
08-03-05 07:08 PM - Post#745706    
    In response to jsburb

for what they did putting the vehicle into drive ,standing on the brakes and holding the engine at 4500 rpm for 5 minute intervals.
What were they trying to break/ the engine /tranny/ or if brakes failed, run truck through wall.
I think you need some legal advice there/ definately a cash settlement or new engine and tranny.
Thats just my opinion,but i reckon if you wanted to destroy an engine/tranny that would be a good way to do it.
I wonder if they would do that to their own truck?.
I have a 99 silverado, regular cab ,long bed ,was 4 wheel drive,has auto and 5.3 vortek engine. one hundred and thirty


 
nodakbassmaster 
Super Senior Member
Posts: 4397
nodakbassmaster
Loc: Poorhouse, SD
Reg: 03-14-04
Re: computer relearn procedure
08-03-05 07:54 PM - Post#745707    
    In response to silvervortek

bet my truck not!
Richard

'09 Silverado 3500HD CC LB D/A LTZ Z71, Mods Annonymous Member #3


 
butch02denali 
Senior Member
Posts: 569
butch02denali
Loc: Middleton, MA
Reg: 04-14-03
Re: The rest of the story
08-04-05 03:28 AM - Post#745708    
    In response to jsburb

It is impossible to rev the engine to 4500 in gear with the brakes on. The stock converter stalls at around 2000 rpm. The truck would either not rev any higher than 2000 or the brakes would slip. My guess is they were doing the static crankshaft sensor relearn procedure or another test cycle, in park and not in gear!
Butch 02 Sierra Denali Wester's 91/93 Hot tune/Outlaw intake Custom Exhaust/Aeroforce Interceptor gauge


 
jsburb 
Member
Posts: 75

Reg: 06-05-05
Re: The rest of the story
08-04-05 08:29 AM - Post#745709    
    In response to butch02denali

Well, I sure hope you are right. I know I have engine problems now - I really hope I don't have to worry about my tranny too. Does what I described (minus the being in gear part) sound like a legitimate procedure for what they should have been doing? Thanks.

 
butch02denali 
Senior Member
Posts: 569
butch02denali
Loc: Middleton, MA
Reg: 04-14-03
Re: The rest of the story
08-04-05 10:33 AM - Post#745710    
    In response to jsburb

Yup!
Here's the GM procedure! It even says that if performed incorrectly damage to the engine could happen from over-revving!!!!

CRANKSHAFT VARIATION RELEARN (CASE Learn)

”CASE” means: crankshaft angle sensor error. A crankshaft variation relearn must be performed if:

A diagnostic trouble code of P1336 is present.
The computer has been replaced or re-programmed.
The crankshaft position sensor has been replaced.
The engine, harmonic balancer, clutch, or flywheel have been: disassembled, removed, or replaced.
The crankshaft position variation learning feature enables the computer to compensate for part manufacturing tolerances. This allows the computer to accurately detect an engine misfire throughout the engine RPM range. The learning process is stored in the computer’s memory and does not have to be repeated unless one or more of the above conditions are present.


To perform the relearn, proceed as follows:

Connect a scan tool to make sure there are no trouble codes stored in the computer’s memory. If there is any power train trouble code other than P1336 (Crankshaft Position Variation not learned), the computer will disable the relearn function until the problem that aused the code has been eliminated. Also, make sure that the engine coolant (check it when the engine is cold) and oil levels are at an acceptable level.

1. Set the parking brake and block the drive wheels. Make sure that the hood is closed.
2. Start the engine and make sure that the engine coolant temperature is at least 158 degrees F. (70 degrees C.)
3. Turn the engine off for at least 10 seconds.
4. Select the crankshaft position variation learn procedure (CASE Learn)on your scan tool.
5. Make sure that the transmission is in Park. Start the engine.
6. Apply the brakes and hold the pedal firmly.
7. Follow the scan tool instructions.

Remember: That you are going to increase the engine speed to approximately 3000 RPM, 4000 RPM, or 5150 RPM. That’s the variation learn fuel cutoff RPM (depending upon the engine), and that it’s important to release the throttle when the engine RPM starts to decrease as a result of the fuel cutoff going into effect. Failure to do such will result in over revving of the engine, causing possible engine damage.

8. Once the engine has returned to idle, check the status of Diagnostic trouble code P1336. If the scan tool indicates that the CASE has been learned, the relearn procedure is now complete. If CASE has not been learned, check for the presence of other power train codes. If any exist, correct the problem, then repeat this procedure.
Butch 02 Sierra Denali Wester's 91/93 Hot tune/Outlaw intake Custom Exhaust/Aeroforce Interceptor gauge


 
jsburb 
Member
Posts: 75

Reg: 06-05-05
Re: The rest of the story
08-04-05 11:21 AM - Post#745711    
    In response to butch02denali

Thanks Butch! I wish my shop could explain things as clearly as you have. The only question that remains is, why did they have to do this if the dist. was marked and replaced according to the marks? They never were able to clear the code with the dist. at the original position, and all they could tell me is "don't know why". Thanks again for the info.

 
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