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killerkjn Member Posts 43 |
08-05-12 09:31 AM - Post#2255947
I have a 62 impala that I would like to tow a small camp trailer with. The car will be set up as follows when I'm done. 283 2bbl, 2004r(czf) od transmission 3:73 non posi rear, power drum brakes with dual master and power steering, hei ignition and upgraded alternator. How much do you guys think I can safely tow? Also, what other upgrades do you think would help with towing within reason. |
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bowtieollie ChevyTalk Subject Matter Expert Posts 20884 
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08-05-12 10:04 AM - Post#2255968
Hi Killer, You are running a fairly short rear to take advantage of the 200R trans. She will be brutal out of the hole!  I would limit the weight of the trailer to 2000lbs or the maximum recommendation of the hitch being used. Tongue weight of approx. 350 max or the hitch rating once more. The car will pull just about anything including a freight train - its stopping the combo that becomes the challenge. Most states require trailer brakes over a given trailer GW - in most cases starting at 3000lbs.
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killerkjn Member Posts 43 |
08-05-12 10:17 AM - Post#2255976
thanks for the info bowtie. I forgot to mention I am running p225r70/15 tires. I calculated my cruising rpm at 60mph would be about 1920rpm. What ratio do you think would be a good match with the 2004r. |
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junky Contributor Posts 888 |
08-05-12 11:24 AM - Post#2255995
I would be very careful if towing anything that doesn't have trailer brakes, since the design of the suspension of the early Chevrolet's leaves a lot to be desired. I remember clearly when I had my 1964 Chevrolet and was towing a 16' wooden boat, going over the rail road tracks, and that started the rear of the Chevy swaying. I almost went off the road as a result. Luckily I was able to accelerate and pull it out.
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DZAUTO Dedicated Enthusiast Posts 7002 
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08-05-12 11:35 AM - Post#2255999
I have ZERO grief or argument with any of the above comments. BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUT, keep one thing in mind just for reference. Back in the day, these kinds of cars were the ONLY thing (other than pickups with the exact same engine and nearly the same brakes) available for pulling anything. Sure, back then, you could buy a few add-on attachments for towing fairly heavy trailers as well as trailer brake controllers that T-ed into the brake line coming off of the master cylinder. But lots of people towed lots of different kinds and sizes of trailers back then with full size cars, including 62 Chevys. I still tow a jet boat with my 70 Chevelle conv.  I even do some ocassional light hauling with a 16ft steel flat trailer behind my 51 Chevy. The 51 has stock 51 brakes and NO trailer brake controller (although the trailer does have brakes). This load is the freshly painted hood/fenders for my son's 68 Chevelle that I just picked up from the body shop. The trailer hitch is bolted to the rear cross member (NOT the bumper) of the 51. 
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YeniPenny Dedicated Enthusiast Posts 5593 
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08-05-12 11:57 AM - Post#2256011
"Back in the day", I pulled a 6 X 12 UHaul loaded with large complete bedroom suite, large oak dining room set and various other household items from north MS to west TX(almost 900 miles) with my 62 SS convertible, all stock w/327 P/G and wife and three kids in the car. Had no problems at all. Also pulled a 5 X 8 UHaul on the same trip a few years earlier with my wifes 54 2dr HT w/3-spd and five adults in the car. It wasn't a fun trip, but the car did just fine. Someone mentioned the car swaying after going over RR tracks...the way to keep that from happening is to always...ALWAYS...load the front of the trailer heavier forward of the axle(s). The trailer will fishtail every time if you don't. |
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62chevy427 "7th Year" Silver Supporting Member Posts 1499 
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08-05-12 01:56 PM - Post#2256059
back in the olden days,(65-66)i used to pull a 61 XXXX galaxy on a 2400 lbs trailer for a total of 6000+ lbs. it did well,just had to be careful. i had a 409 and a 4 speed trans with a 3.70 rear at the time. did not like to stop very well. no trailer brakes. it did tear out the brace behind the rear valance panel. all that is fixed now and no more towing. also (good or bad) no more 409.
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dcairns "4th Year" Silver Supporting Member Posts 1538 
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08-05-12 02:55 PM - Post#2256089
   
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dcairns "4th Year" Silver Supporting Member Posts 1538
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08-05-12 03:38 PM - Post#2256105
I have been wishing I could get a positive ID on the Airstream in this picture, and then being able to find the weights of the the trailer. My best guess is that it is about 24-26 feet long, which according to one source, would make it and empty weight of ~3500-4000 lbs, a hitch weight (weight hanging on the car's hitch) 350-400 lbs. Of course, Airstreams are supposed to be easier to tow than regular trailers, but it gives some idea. Also worth keeping in mind the differences in highway speeds then and now.
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62sedan Very Senior Member Posts 3328 
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08-05-12 04:12 PM - Post#2256115
Just for grins ...........Lucy and Ricky in "The Long, Long Trailer". 
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Verne_Frantz Valued Contributor Posts 3622 
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08-05-12 04:15 PM - Post#2256117
1962 283 2bbl motor??? I'd limit my towing capacity to 600lbs....... Verne 
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Lynn63 "4th Year" Gold Supporting Member Posts 545 
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08-05-12 05:50 PM - Post#2256152
killerkjn, I have a 200-4R with 4.11's and asked a driveline specialist his recommendations and he suggested 3.55's for good hiway and occasional towing. He said 3.73's wouldn't make enough difference for me to notice. The 3.55's will get me just under 2,000 rpm at 70 with the lockup on. |
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Vermontboy Contributor Posts 109 |
08-05-12 05:55 PM - Post#2256154
Regularly hauled an old auto trailer with cars in the 4000 to 5000 pound weight class with a 1960 Dodge with 318 at 70 mph plus on the turnpike.. never a problem..
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DZAUTO Dedicated Enthusiast Posts 7002
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08-05-12 09:30 PM - Post#2256237
Just for grins ...........Lucy and Ricky in "The Long, Long Trailer". You know, I came this close > < to mentioning the Long, Long Trailer movie. I remember it well and I enjoyed it when I was a kid. That is a 53 Merc, which means it had a Flathead motor (I believe 259 cubes for the Merc motors). Also, the car did have trailer brakes because I fully remember the salesman EMPHASIZING to Ricky to use the trailer brakes FIRST. It was ultra common for cars to be pulling trailers back then, no one gave it a second thought. Sooooooooooooooooo, I should think your question should be answered by now!
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dcairns "4th Year" Silver Supporting Member Posts 1538
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08-06-12 06:28 AM - Post#2256305
One thing they did have on that trailer was a "caster wheel" under the hitch to take the trailer's hitch weight off the car. On a trailer that size the hitch weight would compress the car's rear suspension into the ground. Now-a-days people use weight distribution hitches which equally spread the hitch weight to the front of the cars. 
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junky Contributor Posts 888 |
08-06-12 07:37 AM - Post#2256319
In the early 1960's, Chevrolet produced a picture ad for release in magazines which showed a Corvair pulling a very large boat. If I remember correctly, the boat was at least the size of the Corvair if not larger. Having owned a Corvair, I thought this ad to be comical, since the Corvair didn't have that much extra power. I will try to find a copy of the ad and post it.
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bowtieollie ChevyTalk Subject Matter Expert Posts 20884
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08-06-12 07:57 AM - Post#2256326
Hi Killer, If it were my car- I would consider the 3:55 rear. A balance for good performance/MPG. Junky, trailer sway is a result of poor tonque weight. Target 10% tonque weight of total trailer GW. A 2000lb trailer should have 200lb tongue weight as an example.
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dcairns "4th Year" Silver Supporting Member Posts 1538
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08-06-12 08:00 AM - Post#2256328
Is this it?  It seems like some people do some modest towing with them these days. 
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sam 15 Contributor Posts 251 
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08-06-12 04:53 PM - Post#2256513
Is this pic from the trailer in the movie "The Long Yellow Trailer" with Lucille Ball and Desi Arnez???
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killerkjn Member Posts 43 |
08-08-12 08:37 AM - Post#2257086
Thanks everyone for the great pictures and advice. I was thinking the 3.73 would give me about 2200 rpm at 70 and my 283's max torque is at 2200 rpm. But I will consider the 3.55's. |
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dcairns "4th Year" Silver Supporting Member Posts 1538
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08-08-12 09:00 AM - Post#2257098
You may want to consider a extra transmission cooler. With a trailer, the transmission will be getting much hotter than usual.
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Darringer Silver Supporting Member Posts 65 |
08-08-12 10:20 AM - Post#2257135
Another thing to consider. When towing you should not use overdrive. Creates even more heat to kill the transmission.
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jrfuel "2nd Year" Gold Supporting Member Posts 58 |
08-08-12 11:35 AM - Post#2257163
I also would like to put a trailer hitch on my 62, I want to pull my 150" Front Engine Dragster on a single axle open trailer behind me, my question is, what did you use for a hitch, is there a hitch made spec for the car and where would a person get one. My car had one on when I got it but it was simply bolted thru the trunk floor and to the piece of light metal angle running across the back between the frame rails, not what I would safely use. Thanks |
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rrausch "12th Year" Silver Supporting Member Posts 9713 |
08-08-12 11:59 AM - Post#2257173
As someone who has towed a fair amount over the years I'll add my 2-bits. If you are talking about towing a small camp trailer oh say... 25-40 miles to the lake or river and back, and you're towing during the daylight in good weather, sure, you'll probably have no problem. The trouble hits when multiple problems appear and go un-noticed. True story: Retired friend of mine was towing a 26 foot Airstream with his 3/4 ton, 454 Suburban. So far so good. He'd towed a lot over the years and was experienced. He and his wife went on a trip from So. Cal. to No. Cal., and were coming back late on a Sunday night toward home. They were on the last leg of the trip, on Cal. State Route 17 which is part of the So. Cal. Freeway system. He was doing 55 mph, which is required of all tow vehicles on Cal. highways. He was tired and neither him nor his wife noticed any noise or vibration, etc. that might tell of a low tire, but one of the trailer tires WAS low, and then the good tire blew on that side from too much heat and carrying too much of the load. The nice shiny Airstream went sideways at 55 mph on Route 17. This pulled the Surburban sideways also, and the Surburban became the "Tow". Both Surburban and trailer rolled, as the trailer never separated from the hitch. Both were totaled. Friend and his wife crawled out and were not badly hurt. He bought a diesel pickup with a 5th wheel hitch after that. When I tow I always check everything after the first 3-4 miles and again after the first 50 miles. If anything is loose generally it will be apparent after the first 50 miles. I check my trailer tire pressure before I set out, and look at my tires and feel them for heat about every 200 miles as I stop for a walk around or a water or bathroom break. If one feels too warm I'll pull out the pressure gauge and check the pressure. I check the hitch, safety chains, and receiver pin at every stop, right before I get back in the truck to take off again. Towing puts a strain on the tires, suspension, trans and hitch of the tow vehicle as well as on the tires, suspension and hitch of the trailer. If you're towing with a 50-year old car and an equally elderly trailer... well lets just say stuff can happen, and generally the first thing after something happens is that you don't notice anything happened. So one problem will turn into two problems and all of a sudden you're someplace you really don't want to be.
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Verne_Frantz Valued Contributor Posts 3622
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08-08-12 02:01 PM - Post#2257207
Thanks everyone for the great pictures and advice. I was thinking the 3.73 would give me about 2200 rpm at 70 and my 283's max torque is at 2200 rpm. But I will consider the 3.55's. I don't know how you figured that but with 3.73s you would be more likely to be turning 3200rpm, (or more) not 2200rpm. Verne 
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427SS65 "9th Year" Platinum Supporting Member & Moderator Posts 12272 
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08-08-12 02:36 PM - Post#2257222
Make sure you inspect your rear frame rails for rust. You can't bolt a new trailer hitch to a rusty frame! Just imagine what you'd end up with...
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bowtieollie ChevyTalk Subject Matter Expert Posts 20884
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08-08-12 05:27 PM - Post#2257281
Hi Jr, 150" dragster? Twin axle trailer is the only safe way to go. The hitch you had was a Class I and usually rated at 150 lbs tonque weight and 1000-1500 tow weight MAX. Not even close to what is required for your intentions - more suited to garden tractors on small trailers.
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dcairns "4th Year" Silver Supporting Member Posts 1538
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08-08-12 07:57 PM - Post#2257331
I don't know how you figured that but with 3.73s you would be more likely to be turning 3200rpm, (or more) not 2200rpm. Verne Are you forgetting the 200r4 or counting on him running it in 3rd?
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killerkjn Member Posts 43 |
08-08-12 09:21 PM - Post#2257366
Hey Verne I will be running a 2004r with a .67 overdrive ratio. 27.4 tire height. And 3.73 rear end. I calculated about 2200 rpm at 70 mph. I will also have a lockup converter.with brake cancel and low vacuum kick out. That should drop it another couple hundred rpm when lockup is achieved. Also it will be 4 th lockup only. |
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killerkjn Member Posts 43 |
08-08-12 09:26 PM - Post#2257367
Also in regards to the towing. I will probably stay out of overdrive and just go slow. I think the 283 would not be able to handle hills in od |
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Verne_Frantz Valued Contributor Posts 3622
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08-09-12 04:11 AM - Post#2257412
Hey Verne I will be running a 2004r with a .67 overdrive ratio. 27.4 tire height. And 3.73 rear end. I calculated about 2200 rpm at 70 mph. I will also have a lockup converter.with brake cancel and low vacuum kick out. That should drop it another couple hundred rpm when lockup is achieved. Also it will be 4 th lockup only. I didn't read that you were running an overdrive trans. I ran 3.55s once with a 4-spd and was turning about 3000rpm @ 60mph. Verne
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62chevy427 "7th Year" Silver Supporting Member Posts 1499
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08-09-12 04:29 PM - Post#2257669
in the early 60s we lived in a trailer park and a couple movedin towing a trailer like that with their 57 chevy wagon.
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fbi9c1 Frequent Contributor Posts 1659 
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08-12-12 11:29 AM - Post#2258458
One thing they did have on that trailer was a "caster wheel" under the hitch to take the trailer's hitch weight off the car. On a trailer that size the hitch weight would compress the car's rear suspension into the ground. Now-a-days people use weight distribution hitches which equally spread the hitch weight to the front of the cars. Here's a factoid regarding The Long Long Trailer. If you recall, '53 Merc's still had the flathead. For pulling the uphill shots, they substituted a lightly disguised '53 Lincoln convertible which had the 318 OHV 4bbl V8, 4spd Hydramatic, and bigger brakes(recall the Mexican Road Race Lincolns).
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WagonMan "3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member Posts 1266 
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08-12-12 05:43 PM - Post#2258594
Hey Verne I will be running a 2004r with a .67 overdrive ratio. 27.4 tire height. And 3.73 rear end. I calculated about 2200 rpm at 70 mph. I will also have a lockup converter.with brake cancel and low vacuum kick out. That should drop it another couple hundred rpm when lockup is achieved. Also it will be 4 th lockup only. You might rethink the 4th only lockup and maybe go 3 & 4 so you can have lockup when towing. I believe the trans will run cooler using lock vs not using lockup. My wagon is running a toggle switched lockup through vacuum and brake switches so I can have lockup when I want it not when the trans thinks I want it.
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cowfarmer350 Senior Member Posts 895 
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03-26-13 02:36 PM - Post#2329884
Here's my 61 towing my street/strip '66 gto to the drags recently , handled it nicely , Larry . 
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DZAUTO Dedicated Enthusiast Posts 7002
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03-26-13 07:51 PM - Post#2330008
My tow vehicle today. Although, I admit it has a healthy Olds 455 (opened to 468), Richmond 5sp and the original 2.41 posi (yes, that's 2.41). 
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8350 Forum Newbie Posts 12 |
03-27-13 07:35 AM - Post#2330104
[image]http://http://www.frantzenracing.com/FRForum/forum/downloa d/file.php?id=7292[/image] |
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JasonZ Ultra Senior Member Posts 10749 
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03-27-13 08:38 AM - Post#2330126
Here's my 61 towing my street/strip '66 gto to the drags recently , handled it nicely , Larry . What kind of hitch do you have? I though about putting one on mine, but using a airbag suspension to help keep it safe. |
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cowfarmer350 Senior Member Posts 895
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03-27-13 10:36 AM - Post#2330158
Jason , I made it up myself , and put wagon springs in the rear , i could put up a pic if you like , thanks |
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dcairns "4th Year" Silver Supporting Member Posts 1538
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03-27-13 10:52 AM - Post#2330167
I would be interested in seeing your hitch as well. I still harbor this strange urge to hook up a small Airstream to my 64 and go on a road trip.
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cowfarmer350 Senior Member Posts 895
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03-27-13 03:01 PM - Post#2330216
Hi , here's some , there is a another brace in behind the number plate coming of the chassis rear crossmember tying it all together, i made one for my '63 biscayne but sold the car recently so had to make this one my tow car , its very similar to the first one .   
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dcairns "4th Year" Silver Supporting Member Posts 1538
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03-28-13 10:59 AM - Post#2330439
Nice work on the hitch. Was that a kit or all DIY?
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cowfarmer350 Senior Member Posts 895
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03-28-13 11:14 AM - Post#2330444
Dave , its DIY , i did get the local engineering shop to bend the tongue (3" x 3/4" flat bar) and drill the hole for the tow ball . Larry |
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8350 Forum Newbie Posts 12 |
03-30-13 02:40 PM - Post#2331115
[image]http://  [/image]
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DZAUTO Dedicated Enthusiast Posts 7002
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03-31-13 02:18 AM - Post#2331245
[image]http:// [/image] DANG!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I like that!
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dcairns "4th Year" Silver Supporting Member Posts 1538
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03-31-13 08:23 AM - Post#2331319
Looks like the kind of trailer that is common in Europe. Probably fairly light and easy to tow.
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JasonZ Ultra Senior Member Posts 10749
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03-31-13 10:47 AM - Post#2331368
I always wanted to tow with my car. Now I know that it will take a GTO on the back, on a trailer. I'm totally game for a hitch now.  Technically.. I'm not going anywhere till I find rims.  What kind of rims are you using for towing? Just my luck the guy is in New Zealand. 
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cowfarmer350 Senior Member Posts 895
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03-31-13 03:02 PM - Post#2331446
Jason , I'm just using the stock 14" wheels at the moment , I'd like to find some 15's when it comes time to get new tyres |
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