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| Username | Post: How to hot rod a 235?? | |
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musicalboats Forum Newbie Posts 15 |
06-08-12 08:52 PM - Post#2234978
Just got a 1953 Chevy 210, with a 235. Want to old school hot rod it, like maybe how one might in the 50's and 60's. Keeping the 235. Suggestions for engine/etc modifications? Was told to get Fenton headers or something similar and a dual carb set up. New to the car world, looking for suggestions to look into, but don't know where to start. |
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dsacton Contributor Posts 382 |
06-08-12 10:50 PM - Post#2235009
Howdy, Many years ago, a buddy of mine took a 53 (pickup) and kept the original engine---except for boring out the cylindars, a high-duration cam, and a 650-dual feed, double pumper Holey carb, and eldebrock manifold. Ran great! Go for it!
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2blu52 "12th Year" Silver Supporting Member Posts 13059 |
06-09-12 05:40 AM - Post#2235053
The question is what 235 do you have in the car? If you have a manual 3 spd with the original engine then you have an early 235 which is not as good a prospect for hot rodding as the Blue Flame ffull pressure that was in the 53 equipped with the Power Glide. I would answer the question first then look for the means to create more performanc. 
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Happy Belair Contributor Posts 859 |
06-09-12 06:00 AM - Post#2235055
cam, exhaust, duel carb and maybe some chrome. if your looking for ture old school. These blocks can be stroked but not that much to gain for a streeter. There is a book from the 50's that is currently available called "How to hop up Chevrolet and GMC Engines" by Roger Huntington Copyright 1951. Its got some great old school tricks both on the cheap and for high dollar track car racing. Hope that helps
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musicalboats Forum Newbie Posts 15 |
06-09-12 09:32 AM - Post#2235108
Hey, Thanks for all your suggestions. Yeah, its not a Blue Flame - a Thrift King I think. Don't really mind that its not the best hot rodding prospect. If I wanted more I would probably just put a new engine in, but decided that since I bought a car with a running engine might as well keep it. Not going to be winning any races or setting records in this car, just something to drive as much as I can and have a blast. I will look into what you guys have suggested. Any particular brand preferences worth looking into? Something half way decent? |
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fbama73 Contributor Posts 303 
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06-09-12 09:35 AM - Post#2235112
Agree with the dual (or triple) carbs, dual exhaust and cam. That's pretty much all I'm going to do to my full pressure 235 that's going into my '51.
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motorman Super Senior Member Posts 5017 |
06-09-12 09:39 AM - Post#2235114
The question is what 235 do you have in the car? If you have a manual 3 spd with the original engine then you have an early 235 which is not as good a prospect for hot rodding as the Blue Flame ffull pressure that was in the 53 equipped with the Power Glide. I would answer the question first then look for the means to create more performanc. just look at the oil pressure gauge and if it shows more that 30 PSI you have the full pressure system.
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6-bangertim "2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member Posts 1862 |
06-09-12 12:34 PM - Post#2235160
Before you get started with hop-up parts, take a compression test with the engine warm and the throttle blocked open. There won't be much to gain with low or uneven compression. The 216/ early-235 never had much to start with, around 6.8:1 if I recall. If your readings are more than 10% between high and low, tune it up the best you can and drive it STOCK!!! Start thinking about another engine to build with a 3/4 cam, dual intake, pocket-porting the intakes. The '55 and later 235's are your best bet, as they start with 8:1 compression, full-pressure oiling, and are a drop-in swap except for the water pump (too long). BUT - THEY ARE NOT A CHEAP BUILD!!! The Fenton's and most dual intakes will interchange between the 216 and 235. Your BEST BANG FOR THE BUCK would be a 292 truck six, with a open driveline, 4 or 5-speed trannie. There is no replacement for displacement, parts are cheaper and more available. Better to FOCUS ON WHAT THE CAR NEEDS right now - Brakes? Steering and suspension? Wiring? Seat belts? Think SAFE AND DEPENDABLE, then go on to HOT ROD mode. BUY A 1953 SERVICE MANUAL - several vendors sell them, best $$$ you'll ever spend!!! IMO, with a 216 or early 235, I would just go with Fenton's and dual pipes built with flex pipe, shorty Cherry Bombs...cool sound on the cheap! Welcome to CT and congrats on the car!  Pics??? Do a search of my posts and you'll see that I'm kinda fond of these ol' turds!!!  Good Luck, Tim
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brokenhead Contributor Posts 162 |
06-09-12 02:08 PM - Post#2235197
one of the best intakes (I have heard anyway, I would buy one myself if I didn't already buy two twin carb intakes) is the 4 barrel manifold from clifford, howards has cams, camcraft, patricks also have cams, Howards will grind you whatever you want on one. possibly camcraft too, the fella was very nice.(at camcraft) he grinds the cams for kanter and egge. just be careful what you get for intakes and headers, fentons headers don't really fit with much of anything but the stock intake and fenton intakes, some say clifford intakes will fit, but the guy at clifford says you will have to grind to fit his intakes to fenton headers so I'm not sure who to believe. |
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musicalboats Forum Newbie Posts 15 |
06-09-12 05:04 PM - Post#2235240
Hey everybody Thanks for all the suggestions, nice to hear responses... I will look into those different companies. Didn't take a compression test yet. Will probably get around to it, but hadn't yet since it seems to be running pretty okay right now. I am sure it could use a tune up, just based on its history and age. My boyfriend had suggested the 292, but if I was going to go through the time and expense of engine swaps, I would probably just go for something big at that point. But my goal isn't to have the biggest fastest car on the block, it stands out enough as is... And the deal was since it was able to be driven home, and to work and such, no engine swaps unless this one blows up. Might save a little money that way... we hope... I was asking just to get a feel for what would be involved - this is definitely down the road abit, wanted to familiarise myself with it all, keep an eye on ebay and such. Not in "hot rod" mode yet, no fear. Came with its service manual, already been in heavy use. Probably just going to put in the dual carb, new intakes, and dual pipes. Don't really understand how to put up photos... but did take a bunch today! |
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brokenhead Contributor Posts 162 |
06-09-12 05:19 PM - Post#2235249
you can spend a lot of money quick on these. |
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musicalboats Forum Newbie Posts 15 |
06-09-12 05:31 PM - Post#2235253
haha. for sure. But I figure keeping the same engine takes a little bit out of it. I hope? haha. As long as the rent gets paid at the end of the month... |
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Keith_Knox Moderator and "10th Year" Silver Supporting Member Posts 2718 
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06-09-12 08:08 PM - Post#2235295
Posting pictures. http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?ti... Also if you become a supporting member you can post direct from your post
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brokenhead Contributor Posts 162 |
06-10-12 06:18 AM - Post#2235364
that is a maybe on that part, I got about $4000 into an inline, probably have 130 horsepower, but it sure sounds good. I know I have more power than RPM, I really need to get the gears in the rear end. Either way, I would rather spend extra money on my little engine than a small block, I mean anyone can do that. If I were to change engines I would use a 302 GMC they can be made into monsters, I have seen articles where they were getting 900 horsepower, true it was with a 12 port head injecting alcohol. But they do run well nonetheless. |
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musicalboats Forum Newbie Posts 15 |
06-10-12 10:04 PM - Post#2235642
900 horsepower!!!! Whoa! I don't even think I can imagine what that would be like... Oh yeah... will try and figure out the picture thing. |
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Panama Red "3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member Posts 481 
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06-11-12 06:00 AM - Post#2235710
musicalboats, if you want some pics and reading on how to hop up a 235, take a look at my blog. I'm no expert but you may get some good ideas on what you want to do. I'm running Fenton "headers", Clifford intake w/390cfm holley, Comp Cams cam, an 848 head and Pertronix ignition. The engine made nearly 150hp on the dyno and gets over 17.5 m/g with a 3.36:1 rear end from a 57 Chevy and a T5 tranny. She purrs like a kitten!
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DEEDDUDE Forum Newbie Posts 27 
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06-11-12 06:57 AM - Post#2235727
I’m very disappointed in my Clifford intake. Brand new had a crack at the 5/6 port. Casting is of poor quality as is the machining. For $400 you would except a better product. After repairs and installation it does run really well though. Running a Holley 4412 (500 cfm 2 barrel) and headers, no camshaft change yet. |
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Panama Red "3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member Posts 481
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06-11-12 09:34 AM - Post#2235786
I’m very disappointed in my Clifford intake. Brand new had a crack at the 5/6 port. Casting is of poor quality as is the machining. For $400 you would except a better product. After repairs and installation it does run really well though. Running a Holley 4412 (500 cfm 2 barrel) and headers, no camshaft change yet. How new is your Clifford? When I was trying to buy mine from them in Nov of 2010, they were out of stock and Clifford was changing foundries. Seems the old foundry had been bought out by a South American Conglomerate and Clifford's new supplier wasn't fully tooled up yet. I found mine from a dealer in Wash or Oregon (I forget)and all he had was the polished manifold. I like the way it looks. It was worth the extra money IMO.
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6-bangertim "2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member Posts 1862 |
06-11-12 09:50 AM - Post#2235796
Red, what are the specs on your cam? - Tim
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fbama73 Contributor Posts 303
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06-11-12 11:25 AM - Post#2235820
PanamaRed, I'm also interested in those cam specs. Especially since I'm going with a 235 and the 57 Chevy rear with 3:36 gears. And I really like the car and blog. I subscribed to it.
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DEEDDUDE Forum Newbie Posts 27
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06-11-12 11:31 AM - Post#2235822
I’m very disappointed in my Clifford intake. Brand new had a crack at the 5/6 port. Casting is of poor quality as is the machining. For $400 you would except a better product. After repairs and installation it does run really well though. Running a Holley 4412 (500 cfm 2 barrel) and headers, no camshaft change yet. How new is your Clifford? When I was trying to buy mine from them in Nov of 2010, they were out of stock and Clifford was changing foundries. Seems the old foundry had been bought out by a South American Conglomerate and Clifford's new supplier wasn't fully tooled up yet. I found mine from a dealer in Wash or Oregon (I forget)and all he had was the polished manifold. I like the way it looks. It was worth the extra money IMO. Red, mine is an older unit. I think the model number is 4300-C. I had to build a heat plate for it. The newer ones have bungs for the hot water. Mine has an area on the bottom where you could bolt one up. I couldn't find what I needed so I built one out of some 1" aluminum plate. When I get time I would like to polish mine also, it would get rid of all the casting marks. |
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Panama Red "3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member Posts 481
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06-11-12 01:49 PM - Post#2235875
Ok, cam specs. Comp Cams part #60-000-5. CAUTION! My block is a 53 so it uses the small bearing journal cam. Don't order by part number unless yours is the same year. Later years use a larger journal cam. Also, mine is a hydaulic but I won't use a hydraulic cam in one of these motors again. The lifters available are junk! Mine clatters on cold startup because the lifters bleed out just sitting. I talked with Comp Cams tech dept last week and they ok'd installing solid lifters on this cam set at .008-.010" valve lash. I've done this before on a small block in a drag race car and we made it work perfectly. Ok, cam specs, I got side tracked. Intake lift .463/Exhaust .469. Duration @ .006 lift: intake 261/exh 275. Lobe center: 110 (installed at 106 as recommended using offset crank key). I'm also using Comp Cams valve springs. Valve to piston clearance is tight so check things close. This cam has a nice lopey idle and lots of low end power. We actually pulled 5000 rpm on the dyno but stopped making power at about 4600. I'm thinking the lifters were holding it back. My engine idles at about 550-600 rpm. It's amazing how many folks think it's a small block from the idle sound - that is until the exhaust barks during 2nd gear accelleration! lol
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6-bangertim "2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member Posts 1862 |
06-11-12 02:10 PM - Post#2235886
Thanks Red! How about duration at .050" lift? Sounds like a really good cam. I'm looking for one for a 261 build, in the planning stages...  Take Care, Tim
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Panama Red "3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member Posts 481
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06-11-12 02:22 PM - Post#2235892
Ah yes, I forgot that Tim is a true afficiando of engine specs. Duration @ .050 int 218/exh 224.
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musicalboats Forum Newbie Posts 15 |
06-11-12 11:01 PM - Post#2236070
Hey Panama, checked out the blog, neat looking car! Will def. take some more time and read through all the back entries. |
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musicalboats Forum Newbie Posts 15 |
06-11-12 11:16 PM - Post#2236072
Okay, I started a flickr account: http://www.flickr.com/photos/80165091@N05/? uploade... Here are two of the photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/80165091@N05/7 1792080... http://www.flickr.com/photos/80165091@N05/7 3644384... (It might be worth it to mention that I recently got a new camera, and had a little bit too much fun with the filters setting... hence the old school look. The car looks better that way lol. Will try and put up some regular photos soon. It is the light green/sea foam color, with the dark green for dash, steering wheel trim, etc. I want to paint it a dark crimson with an ivory top, matching interior.) -Melanya Okay, bamboozled. I still can't seem to put photos up, just the links. But atleast I am half way there... |
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Panama Red "3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member Posts 481
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06-12-12 05:48 AM - Post#2236115
Hey Panama, checked out the blog, neat looking car! Will def. take some more time and read through all the back entries. Thanks. Looks like you've got a solid piece there. Have fun with it!
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jaydogg1 Forum Newbie Posts 50 
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06-12-12 10:06 AM - Post#2236201
Great Pics 
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Keith_Knox Moderator and "10th Year" Silver Supporting Member Posts 2718
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06-12-12 11:12 AM - Post#2236224
Great pics. Is that a stock air cleaner?
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6-bangertim "2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member Posts 1862 |
06-12-12 12:31 PM - Post#2236256
Red, THAT looks like the dual-pattern cam I've been looking for. I LIKE the idea of advancing the cam 4 degrees, moving the power band down for more bottom and mid-range grunt!  How high is your vacuum? How many PSI do you get during a compression test?With power discs on my '57, decent vacuum is a factor. I have a good "848" head with the intakes pocket ported, but hate to cut the head for more compression. I'm thinking that advancing the cam helps pick up DYNAMIC COMPRESSION. I will 0-deck the block to reduce quench at least. I've been reading your blog - WELL DONE!!! I also have a cracked 848 head, fully ported 35 years ago. I just need a shop in SoCal that can weld it up - cracked above a water jacket. ALWAYS good to have a spare head!THANKS again Red! - Tim
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Panama Red "3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member Posts 481
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06-12-12 12:43 PM - Post#2236262
Tim, I haven't done a compression test since I installed the engine. Now that you ask, I may have to do that just to record the base line numbers. Don't know the vacuum psi either but I'll be happy to check it for you later this week. Dick at More Power, the guy that spec'd the cam, likes the dual pattern stuff. He contends it "makes the engine think it has higher compression than it really does." I know your pain of needing vacuum for disc brakes. Back in the 70's I drag raced a Z-28 Camaro in Stock Eliminator. Used a General Kinetics cam that was pretty radical. At the end of the 1/4 mi, I'd flip the shifter into neutral and stand on the brake pedal cuz the vacuum assist was nil!! Used up a lot of shut down area to bring it down from 114 mph.
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6-bangertim "2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member Posts 1862 |
06-12-12 01:00 PM - Post#2236267
KOOL shots Melanya, looks like you were having a TON of fun behind the lens!!! Looks like you found a great car to start out with. How about a pic with THE PROUD OWNER??? Keep the car driveable as much as you can - do a project, then drive and enjoy as you think about the next project. Change out the brake fluid and repack the wheel bearings for starters. CLEAN ALL CONNECTIONS in the starter circuit, if you still have 6v. No good reason why a lady can't turn a wrench - our hobby needs more HOT ROD GIRLS! Buy the DVD - "DUCE OF SPADES" for some inspiration - dang good movie!!! Oh - where are you located??? Best Wishes, Tim
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6-bangertim "2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member Posts 1862 |
06-12-12 01:06 PM - Post#2236269
Cool, Red - Thanks!!! Just PM me with your results. - Tim
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Panama Red "3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member Posts 481
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06-12-12 01:12 PM - Post#2236272
Buy the DVD - "DUCE OF SPADES" for some inspiration - dang good movie!!! Amen to that! Great movie!! You may even get a tear in your eye. 
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socalpop Member Posts 132 
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06-12-12 04:34 PM - Post#2236362
  1960 261 6 in our 1958 Chevy Sedan Delivery All stock internals Click first link below to see pics of the build.
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6-bangertim "2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member Posts 1862 |
06-12-12 06:07 PM - Post#2236409
Pops, THAT just takes my breath away... What did your 261 pull on the dyno? What mufflers are you running? MUCHO THANKS for the pics! - Tim
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musicalboats Forum Newbie Posts 15 |
06-12-12 09:30 PM - Post#2236469
Wow! First of all, that looks like an awesome engine from what little I know. Will totally check out the movie, read the brief on it looks really good. Yeah, someone changed up the air cleaner, was going to take a quick look into it this weekend, looks like they just took the old one out and then popped a new one on top... Thanks for the suggestions Tim - I think brake fluid should be good now - had some trouble with the "No - roll" feature leaking, overrode it, but would like it get it working in the future. Still have the 6v, so will look into the starter circuit. Had some trouble with it all at the begining, was wondering if the solenoid was bad, bench tested okay twice, but you never know. Located a few hours north of Seattle on the peninsula. Got the car in Auburn, drove it home that night. And I will try and get a picture of me and it - I have named it Ella Mae. |
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cederholm Frequent Contributor Posts 1309 
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06-13-12 07:10 AM - Post#2236565
Wow - is it possible the I stayed quiet through this whole thread? ...that doesn't sound right! Musicalboats, welcome to CT! Your car sounds fun, keep us posted on your progress. ~ Carl BTW - musicalboats - neat name, care to share the meaning behind it?
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cederholm Frequent Contributor Posts 1309
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06-13-12 07:11 AM - Post#2236566
1960 261 6 in our 1958 Chevy Sedan Delivery All stock internals Click first link below to see pics of the build. Dang Pops - you're making us look bad!! Beautiful motor!!! ` Carl
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arnieg141 Dedicated Enthusiast Posts 6079 
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06-13-12 07:30 AM - Post#2236582
235 3/4 cam ..had 2 rochesters then 2 carters on fenton. then back to 1 rochester with biger jet .photo before i did total rewire 
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socalpop Member Posts 132
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06-13-12 01:40 PM - Post#2236732
With the 261 being all stock on the inside the Dyno HP was about 130. I posted a link to the exhaust video so you can see the mufflers and hear them as well. The 1st part of the video is before the exhaust system was installed (uncorked). The second part is with exhaust installed. The motor is solid lifter as most 261's were stock. This is before final valve adjustment so the lifters are a bit noisy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-T4haP6uNNs
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brokenhead Contributor Posts 162 |
06-13-12 04:21 PM - Post#2236792
vacumn isn't generally measured in PSI, it is measured in inches of mercury or sometimes water. Just one of those things that drive me nuts. |
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Panama Red "3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member Posts 481
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06-13-12 05:29 PM - Post#2236822
vacumn isn't generally measured in PSI, it is measured in inches of mercury or sometimes water. Just one of those things that drive me nuts. I stand corrected. Guess I wasn't paying attention to what I was typing.
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brokenhead Contributor Posts 162 |
06-13-12 07:07 PM - Post#2236882
no problem, that is just one of my little quirk things, as sometimes the smallest detail makes an incredible difference. Much like an inch isn't very much until it happens to be the wrong cam that got switched with yours at the cam grinder. By the way, did the dual carbs really make much difference? |
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Panama Red "3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member Posts 481
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06-13-12 07:15 PM - Post#2236892
no problem, that is just one of my little quirk things, as sometimes the smallest detail makes an incredible difference. Much like an inch isn't very much until it happens to be the wrong cam that got switched with yours at the cam grinder. By the way, did the dual carbs really make much difference? I'm not running dual carbs on mine. I'm using a 390cfm Holley 4bbl.
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6-bangertim "2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member Posts 1862 |
06-14-12 02:05 AM - Post#2236963
Thanks, Pops! Is the SD finished - or any progress pics? Sure sounds good, even with stock mufflers and a cross-over pipe, your shop did a great job!- Tim
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brokenhead Contributor Posts 162 |
06-14-12 04:00 PM - Post#2237183
arnieg is the guy I wanted to ask about the twin carbs working better or not... |
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brokenhead Contributor Posts 162 |
06-14-12 04:01 PM - Post#2237184
ok then, How does the 4 barrel run then? I'm looking into my options. |
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Panama Red "3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member Posts 481
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06-14-12 04:44 PM - Post#2237198
The 4 barrel works perfect. Haven't had a single problem with it and, as I stated earlier, I get over 17.5 m/gal on the highway with the overdrive.
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socalpop Member Posts 132
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06-14-12 06:12 PM - Post#2237229
Sedan Delivery was finished (and sold) in August of last year. Click the 1st LINK below in this post for progress pics. 
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musicalboats Forum Newbie Posts 15 |
06-15-12 09:52 PM - Post#2237678
Sooo many neat things going on! Its neat to see all your guys engine set ups, figure out what I want for my own! To Carl - that picture icon of your car looks real cool! (the musicalboats if from playing music - mainly tenor sax and bassoon, and that I went to a wooden boat school for a while, work in our local boatyard now...) So, ordered the solenoid rebuild kit, new one wasn't that much money, might have to get it if I ruin this one taking it apart but sort of wanted to learn how it works. Any thoughts or comments? And question two: (dumb basic question) How does the number of carbs affect things, or is it negligible and mainly more looks? I am thinking that they should both produce the same out come just different ways of doing it? |
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oldcardude53 Contributor Posts 348 |
06-16-12 07:17 PM - Post#2238010
Answer to broken head: I put the clifford water heated intake and fentons on my 261. The flanges are different thickness so the the retainer thing between the two will not work. I had to fabricate a new one for each bolt. I have a clifford grind cam and a 500 edelbrock, works great. |
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brokenhead Contributor Posts 162 |
06-16-12 08:59 PM - Post#2238059
thanks, that is what I was thinking |
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cederholm Frequent Contributor Posts 1309
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06-17-12 07:01 PM - Post#2238450
Sooo many neat things going on! Its neat to see all your guys engine set ups, figure out what I want for my own! To Carl - that picture icon of your car looks real cool! (the musicalboats if from playing music - mainly tenor sax and bassoon, and that I went to a wooden boat school for a while, work in our local boatyard now...) Very cool! Here are a couple pis for ya from NYC as I prep for paint.   
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