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Username Post: Starter wires
thatguy2001
Senior Member
Posts 722
thatguy2001
03-21-08 01:51 PM - Post#1393509    

Yes it's been a long time. We have had rain, rain, snow, rain, work, kids, schedules... No time on the brief occasion when it's dry to work on the car.

Since it has been so long, I am completely lost on the wiring for the starter. I pulled it out months ago while replacing the transmission. At the time I thought I may be pulling the engine too, so I cut the connections when removing it. Later, I stupidly removed the connections from the starter before putting it back on the car. So the end result is that I have wires that I don't know where to connect.

I have an early 70s 350 with HEI. My starter has a 3 post solenoid, I know that the battery connects to the large post and I am pretty sure that the alternator does as well. aside from that, I have three other wires - The coil wire and two smaller wires, one purple, one brown (gold?).

The two smaller wires come out of the original loom and I assume that they need to go on different posts or they would have been split later. I read that on the '60 (mine's a '59) the purple goes on the S post close to the block.

So is this correct? and if so, where does the coil wire go?

Batt Post: Battery, Alternator
R POST: brown
S POST: purple


This is the last thing I need to do before I start the car to see if everything is funcional with the tranny swap and other things that have happened in the last few months. I am very hesitant to make a best guess on the wiring since... well, we all know the various things that could happen...
Seth
'59 Chevy Biscayne 4D: Baby

car photos

thatguy2001
Senior Member
Posts 722
thatguy2001
03-21-08 03:39 PM - Post#1393564    

I've been studying the wiring diagrams and there is no brown wire but there is a white one. My brown an violet wires come out of the same loom and they were both connected to the starter originally.

Also, for clarification, when I referred to the wire to the alternator, I know that it is the one typically going to the regulator but my car has a 'one wire' alternator with an internal regulator.
Seth
'59 Chevy Biscayne 4D: Baby

car photos

acardon
Senior Member
Posts 9789
acardon
03-21-08 04:42 PM - Post#1393594    

The wiring diagram (wiring diagram) doesn't show but 2 small wires. The purple wire to the "S" terminal and the dark green coil wire on the "R" terminal. The "S" terminal energizes the starter when the key is in the start position and the "R" terminal provides 12 volts to the coil when cranking the engine. Could the other wires be for the heater blower?
Don
66 Corvair (driving)
57 2dr HT (driving)
56 2dr HT (waiting to be restored)

thatguy2001
Senior Member
Posts 722
thatguy2001
03-21-08 05:21 PM - Post#1393621    

  • acardon Said:
The wiring diagram (wiring diagram) doesn't show but 2 small wires. The purple wire to the "S" terminal and the dark green coil wire on the "R" terminal. The "S" terminal energizes the starter when the key is in the start position and the "R" terminal provides 12 volts to the coil when cranking the engine. Could the other wires be for the heater blower?



That's what I was wondering with the brown wire since it is the only brown I saw in the diagram.

I did go ahead and hook it up with purple to the "s" and a coil wire to the "r", then battery and regulator to the "Batt", ignoring the brown. The car turns over and fires up but immediately dies. There is no trying to continue once I let go of the ignition. To confuse things, my distributor marks went away so the timing is off.

When the key is in the "on" position, my gauges, lights, fan, etc., are all functioning. It feels to me like the distributor isn't getting any power after the initial 12v cranking.

I (probably stupidly) did try connecting the brown wire to the "r" post and the car started right up and stayed running. however, there was a high pitched wining noise coming from the area of the starter, making me suspect that by connecting that wire, the solenoid is not disengaging. does that sound plausible?

Idears?
Seth
'59 Chevy Biscayne 4D: Baby

car photos

acardon
Senior Member
Posts 9789
acardon
03-21-08 08:01 PM - Post#1393718    

There should be 2 wires on the + side of the coil. The resistance wire on the + terminal keeps it running after it cranks and the "R" terminal voltage drops.
If the brown wire is connected back to the purple wire someplace, it would keep the starter energized, and as long as the starter is energized, it will stay running because it keeps voltage on the "R" terminal.
Don
66 Corvair (driving)
57 2dr HT (driving)
56 2dr HT (waiting to be restored)

raycow
Honored Member
Posts 18005
03-22-08 01:24 AM - Post#1393834    

  • thatguy2001 Said:
I (probably stupidly) did try connecting the brown wire to the "r" post and the car started right up and stayed running. however, there was a high pitched wining noise coming from the area of the starter, making me suspect that by connecting that wire, the solenoid is not disengaging. does that sound plausible?

Idears?


Try this just as a test: Connect the coil wire and the brown wire together, but do not connect them to the solenoid. The engine should now crank and run. If it doesn't run, you have a wiring error or your resistance wire (in the harness) is defective. If the starter continues to spin after the engine starts, the problem isn't in the wiring.

Ray
I promised to serve you. I didn't say to whom.

bowtieollie
ChevyTalk Subject Matter Expert
Posts 21117
bowtieollie
03-22-08 07:03 AM - Post#1393928    

Yooooo Guys,

He is running an HEI distributor.

He only needs the one wire on the starter solenoid for the start function. Everything else can be tossed.

Bowtieollie
Chevytalk.com Moderator

CherryCoke
RIP
Posts 1613
CherryCoke
03-22-08 09:26 AM - Post#1394009    

good one Ollie, I was thinkin the same,
I have this to go thru when I connect up everything,hope no problem as I have gotten the new HEI harness from our sponsor,AAW..
1960 Impala "More Door HT" 350/350 full power,Continental Kit,"My Dream Machine"

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aawtech
American Autowire "Site Sponsor"
Posts 4238
03-22-08 04:52 PM - Post#1394253    

Ok Guys, sorry I missed this earlier. The purple does go on the "S" stud toward the inside of the block, the green goes onto the "R" stud toward the outside of the car.

Ollie, not to be controversial, but when using the original 59 ignition switch, you WILL NEED TO HOOK UP the dk. green wire. The reason? The ignition switch is not mutually bussed in a 59 car meaning that the ignition circuit drops voltage in the crank position. Many times we'll get calls on this when someone is running a single wire starter or fuel injection. The car will crank, but nothing will fire. Occasionally, if you get it spinning fast enough and release the key, it will catch. That's why we double up the green with the heavy pink wire at the HEI coil when doing a HEI conversion on one of these cars. In addition, YOU MUST replace the primary ignition wire on the dash side (we include a jumper wire at no extra charge along with instructions) when converting to HEI. The stock primary ignition circuit in a 1966 or earlier GM car is only 18 gauge wire. You absolutely cannot drive a GM HEI distributor with an 18 gauge wire. IT WILL MELT taking the entire dash harness with it, especially if you're using an original 50 year old dash harness with PVC wire (excessive heat + PVC = instant napalm).

Donny
thatguy2001
Senior Member
Posts 722
thatguy2001
03-22-08 04:53 PM - Post#1394254    

thanks. I didn't want to jump in too soon with the HEI clarification and sound like I wasn't grateful for the help. In fact, that wiring diagram was much easier to read than the one in my shop manual.

So Cherry, you think I should try connecting the mystery brown wire to the distributor (coil) wire and skip the starter all together with them? I had been thinking of trying that since obviously the brown wire is powering the coil and causing the starter to stay engaged.

Then again, maybe it's the craigslist TH350 that's making all the noise

Oh wait, Donny just posted clarifications for me to read...
Seth
'59 Chevy Biscayne 4D: Baby

car photos

thatguy2001
Senior Member
Posts 722
thatguy2001
03-22-08 05:04 PM - Post#1394262    

  • aawtech Said:
Ok Guys, sorry I missed this earlier. The purple does go on the "S" stud toward the inside of the block, the green goes onto the "R" stud toward the outside of the car.

Ollie, not to be controversial, but when using the original 59 ignition switch, you WILL NEED TO HOOK UP the dk. green wire. The reason? The ignition switch is not mutually bussed in a 59 car meaning that the ignition circuit drops voltage in the crank position. Many times we'll get calls on this when someone is running a single wire starter or fuel injection. The car will crank, but nothing will fire. Occasionally, if you get it spinning fast enough and release the key, it will catch. That's why we double up the green with the heavy pink wire at the HEI coil when doing a HEI conversion on one of these cars. In addition, YOU MUST replace the primary ignition wire on the dash side (we include a jumper wire at no extra charge along with instructions) when converting to HEI. The stock primary ignition circuit in a 1966 or earlier GM car is only 18 gauge wire. You absolutely cannot drive a GM HEI distributor with an 18 gauge wire. IT WILL MELT taking the entire dash harness with it, especially if you're using an original 50 year old dash harness with PVC wire (excessive heat + PVC = instant napalm).

Donny



Hmmm. OK, more clarifications to confuse things
First: Nothing has changed with my starter/ignition/distribu tor. The issue is that I severed the wires and then (stupidly) removed the connectors from the posts. Now I am confused. Before this, it started and drove fine.

Second: Possibly more confusing, I have no dark green wire. No white wire either. Unless the brown that I am seeing is 50 year old white.

Third: don't worry too much about it right now. While I did find that the transmission 'works' I also found something that I ought to have noticed before ever putting it in my car. The rod that changes gears has a large amount of freeplay to the point where I can either hook up the linkage to go into Park and Reverse, or into Neutral, D, 2, 1. It has a full quarter turn of freedom. So now it's rip it out and replace it again time.
Seth
'59 Chevy Biscayne 4D: Baby

car photos

bowtieollie
ChevyTalk Subject Matter Expert
Posts 21117
bowtieollie
03-23-08 06:22 AM - Post#1394495    

Hey Donny,

Thank you for an excellent explanation.... I am sure it will help quite a few CT members......
Bowtieollie
Chevytalk.com Moderator

CherryCoke
RIP
Posts 1613
CherryCoke
03-23-08 07:42 AM - Post#1394536    

I printed this out Donny, Tnx for the "Heads Up" answer !
I will take this to the shop and when we get to that part, I will be armed with the info...
Maybe write it on the back of my hand and look like a hero. haahaa just kiddin, butits printed now
1960 Impala "More Door HT" 350/350 full power,Continental Kit,"My Dream Machine"

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aawtech
American Autowire "Site Sponsor"
Posts 4238
03-23-08 09:01 AM - Post#1394584    

No Problem Ollie! Study well Cherrycoke. You never know who you'll impress! Glad to share the knowledge. That's what this site is all about first and foremost.

Donny
thatguy2001
Senior Member
Posts 722
thatguy2001
04-02-08 10:23 AM - Post#1402401    

Hey thank you guys for that. It turns out that the wiring was fine. The high pitched whine was actually coming from a vacuum leak in the carb. It was so lous that you couldn't tell where it was coming from. I didn't realize that's what it was until I ventured under the car with it running and couldn't hear it.

So all's good!
Seth
'59 Chevy Biscayne 4D: Baby

car photos

Bryan59ec
Contributor
Posts 744
Bryan59ec
04-03-08 07:22 PM - Post#1403575    

  • aawtech Said:
Ok Guys, sorry I missed this earlier. The purple does go on the "S" stud toward the inside of the block, the green goes onto the "R" stud toward the outside of the car.

Ollie, not to be controversial, but when using the original 59 ignition switch, you WILL NEED TO HOOK UP the dk. green wire. The reason? The ignition switch is not mutually bussed in a 59 car meaning that the ignition circuit drops voltage in the crank position. Many times we'll get calls on this when someone is running a single wire starter or fuel injection. The car will crank, but nothing will fire. Occasionally, if you get it spinning fast enough and release the key, it will catch. That's why we double up the green with the heavy pink wire at the HEI coil when doing a HEI conversion on one of these cars. In addition, YOU MUST replace the primary ignition wire on the dash side (we include a jumper wire at no extra charge along with instructions) when converting to HEI. The stock primary ignition circuit in a 1966 or earlier GM car is only 18 gauge wire. You absolutely cannot drive a GM HEI distributor with an 18 gauge wire. IT WILL MELT taking the entire dash harness with it, especially if you're using an original 50 year old dash harness with PVC wire (excessive heat + PVC = instant napalm).

Donny



I have tried more than once to explain this to some people.

For those contemplating re-wiring your car (59-60), might consider using a 64+ ignition switch with your HEI conversion.
This will help with a couple of things.

'Start' & Ignition power at the same time----good for those mini starters.
The addition of an "ACCY" position-----to power the stereo or windows without sending power to the ignition circuits, for when you are just hanging out in a parking lot.
Bryan's Toyz
59 ElCamino, 454ho/TKO 5-spd (Daddy)
66 ElCamino, 307/5-spd and gets 25mpg (Mousey)
65 Ranchero, 289/4-spd--my uncle bought new (Old Blue)

CherryCoke
RIP
Posts 1613
CherryCoke
04-03-08 08:21 PM - Post#1403627    

Bryan,.Thats a good Idea.
today while we were wiring the new A?C....guess what?.......My Ignition switch had at one time,unknown to me,maybe before I got car in 91,had a short and the plug is half melted,,,so i need a switch...where oh where?
1960 Impala "More Door HT" 350/350 full power,Continental Kit,"My Dream Machine"

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