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Username Post: 350 to 454 engine swap
salazar44
Senior Member
Posts 835
salazar44
02-18-08 08:29 AM - Post#1368740    

Hi all. I couldnt find any related info of this topic in our 60-66 truck pages. So sorry if Im asking for the millionth time!

Me and my buddy took out his old 350 engine and attempted to drop in his new 454 engine. We were unsuccessful in getting it lined up to mount before the sun went down. It is my guess that the Headers that he had installed on the block already are getting in the way.

However, even if we remove them for the install what other types of issues are we likely to find? He is using the same perches he had on the 350 and running a 350 trans. Thanks so much.
VIC One Repair Leads to Another! My 65 Chevy C-10 Blog

Chevy_Stepside
Super Senior Member
Posts 5812
Chevy_Stepside
02-18-08 07:37 PM - Post#1369342    

The left header is not going to clean the perch. And yes you have to drop the engine in first and put the headers in from under the truck. I used these mounts for my BB.. And I still had to shim the mounts up about 3/16" to get the left one to clear..
"A man and his truck, It's a beautiful thing"
The tour is on again. May 1st 2011. $5 I ride 100 miles. http://main.diabetes.org/site/TR?pg=personal&a mp;f...

Chevy_Stepside
Super Senior Member
Posts 5812
Chevy_Stepside
02-18-08 07:43 PM - Post#1369348    

Also you might have to move the perches to the front holes as the valve covers will hit the firewall.
"A man and his truck, It's a beautiful thing"
The tour is on again. May 1st 2011. $5 I ride 100 miles. http://main.diabetes.org/site/TR?pg=personal&a mp;f...

fritz1990
Senior Member
Posts 6401
fritz1990
02-18-08 07:49 PM - Post#1369354    

Vic,
Not sure if the original mounts will work on a BBC as I used the front x-member from an '80 donor with the clamshells. I know they will bolt on but don't know if they make it sit too high? Your header problems may be the original mounts also. My 2" primary headers will go in with the motor already in with no problems. I did have to grind a lil' out of the passenger side frame rail, but I also moved my engine to the forward holes. If you are using the rear holes I think you will have valve cover to firewall, dist if HEI, clearance problems also, but it can be massaged with a F*%d wrench (BFH).

Other than needing a bigger/better rad possibly, shouldn't be too much else to worry about. Take a look at my pics on my Yahoo site if you want to, or ask and I will get some new/different pics for you, don't mind at all. I am sure I have forgot something but just ask. Or give me shout on Yahoo Mess.

Regards, Jeff

Looks like Chevy Stepside was typin' when I was.
1998 K1500 6.5 Coal burner
1965 C10 with 498 BBC AFR Heads
1964 C10 Ran 348W for 6 years, now SBC.

Corvettes owned: '74 '77 '78 L82 Silver Anniversary, 2002 LS1

Don't have a nervous come together!

http://picasaweb.google.com/fritz199090

salazar44
Senior Member
Posts 835
salazar44
02-18-08 09:48 PM - Post#1369462    

Thanks guys. I think the engine will have to go in the front holes as well. Currently my buddy is using the hugger headers which look way too tight. I think he will need some that swoop back.

If we use the front holes to move the perches forward, how will we mate the block to the transmission housing? Wont the gap be to large now?

Thanks alot guys! Fritz... I will hit u up next time u are on messenger!
VIC One Repair Leads to Another! My 65 Chevy C-10 Blog

fritz1990
Senior Member
Posts 6401
fritz1990
02-19-08 07:06 AM - Post#1369604    

You have to move the trans forward also with the trans x-member. You will have to lengthen driveshaft. Which water pump are you running short or long? If long you will need to modify the radiator brackets for rad clearance unless you are running elecric fans. Yes full length headers would be a plus. Will look up some part #'s for you tonight for them.

Trans linkage will need tweaked, throttle linkage. What kind of radiator are you running? May not be sufficient for the BB. Look at Pershs page for "Install an Aluminum Rad Economically"

I have to get ready for work but this is just a couple things that will be required.

I will be on around 6 ish Mountain time tonight.

Regards, Jeff
1998 K1500 6.5 Coal burner
1965 C10 with 498 BBC AFR Heads
1964 C10 Ran 348W for 6 years, now SBC.

Corvettes owned: '74 '77 '78 L82 Silver Anniversary, 2002 LS1

Don't have a nervous come together!

http://picasaweb.google.com/fritz199090

Turtle
Senior Member
Posts 209
02-19-08 04:19 PM - Post#1370046    

i have got a 454 in a 63 gmc suburan.i did not have to modify the firewall.i use a HEI. i used the stock radiator just had it 4 core.i use a long waterpump. i used stock manifolds with 700r4 with a Lokar floor shifter.ihad to get drive shaft modified,runs great
salazar44
Senior Member
Posts 835
salazar44
02-19-08 04:22 PM - Post#1370050    

what type of motor mounts / pillars are you using? Which holes are your pillars mounted to on the frame? Thanks turtle!

Vic
VIC One Repair Leads to Another! My 65 Chevy C-10 Blog

Turtle
Senior Member
Posts 209
02-19-08 06:27 PM - Post#1370152    

i used 1971 chevy truck mounts and perchs.i had to cut the frame back a little so the perchs would line up with the holes.
oconnor
Newbie
Posts 73
02-19-08 10:06 PM - Post#1370349    

subscribed!
Semper Fi

salazar44
Senior Member
Posts 835
salazar44
02-19-08 11:10 PM - Post#1370381    

Wow... So all the rumors my buddy heard about buy it and drop it in werent so true ehh!
VIC One Repair Leads to Another! My 65 Chevy C-10 Blog

Chevy_Stepside
Super Senior Member
Posts 5812
Chevy_Stepside
02-20-08 08:53 AM - Post#1370534    

I think the 63 firewall is differnt. They may have changed them due to heater room. It seems all the 63 guys and just drop it in and slide it back with no problems but then again I could be wrong. BB mounts are differnt in the later 60's trucks then the SB mounts. It is just the way it is.
"A man and his truck, It's a beautiful thing"
The tour is on again. May 1st 2011. $5 I ride 100 miles. http://main.diabetes.org/site/TR?pg=personal&a mp;f...

raycow
Honored Member
Posts 18674
02-20-08 11:58 AM - Post#1370637    

John, your frame bracket (or perch) for the engine mount looks quite a bit different from any stock Chevy truck brackets I have seen. Is this an aftermarket part or did you make it yourself?

Ray
Bacon is the gateway drug for vegetarians - Bridget Lancaster

1965C-10
Very Senior Member
Posts 7068
1965C-10
02-21-08 11:23 AM - Post#1371375    

I would say that it is a aftermarket piece, by the way, if I had known at the time, I would have got those instead of trimming the inner frame rails to accommodate the 1974 Chevy truck big block perches/towers.

Oh well , it works
1965C-10
Very Senior Member
Posts 7068
1965C-10
02-21-08 12:05 PM - Post#1371390    

I just looked at the picture and noticed it looks like John had to trim his inner framerail for the aftermarket perches, so I guess it's the same if you go with aftermarket or the 1974 GM ones like I used.

Still, the aftermarket ones look cooler IMO
salazar44
Senior Member
Posts 835
salazar44
02-21-08 10:05 PM - Post#1371859    

Well... we are going ahead with the swap. We are getting new tubed perches and mounts from the truck shop.

Incase we have to take off some frame rail.. which method is preferred? Grinder? Saw?

Please tell me if this plan should work. We plan on:
1. Putting the mounts on the block and attaching the perches.

2. dropping the motor in, and mating it to tranny.

3. marking perches for frame/crossmember mounting

4. taking back out, drill holes and put back in.

5. done??

my other questions are
a) how critial is it that we are pretty square and centered for the perch mount locations?

b) How do you estimate how much frame rail needs to be taken away?

c) would the cheapest route be to hammer firewall back or cut it away if we have HEI/Valve cover clearance issues

Thanks a bunch guys!
VIC One Repair Leads to Another! My 65 Chevy C-10 Blog

Chevy_Stepside
Super Senior Member
Posts 5812
Chevy_Stepside
02-22-08 08:28 AM - Post#1372048    

You will only have to cut the frame back about 1/2". I drew a line and cut it with a jig saw and a metal blade. You get much better control that way. I also curved it so it would kinda look factory. Set the engine in bolted up to the tranny leave the hoist on the engine of course and set the perches in with the mounts on them and see where you need to trim the frame. You should be able to trim the frame with a jig saw and the engine in there if you lift it high enough. If not you will have to pull it. Like mentioned before somewhere. You have to pull it many times. I did, but then again I was doing something totaly differnt.
"A man and his truck, It's a beautiful thing"
The tour is on again. May 1st 2011. $5 I ride 100 miles. http://main.diabetes.org/site/TR?pg=personal&a mp;f...

fritz1990
Senior Member
Posts 6401
fritz1990
02-22-08 10:20 AM - Post#1372127    

Look here for the notches I made. I drilled a hole where the corners were to be to keep from cracking.

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/nosler1961/album/5764 6...

My whole build is on there just not very organized.

As I stated above it is easier to use a bare block and heads and do the mock up cuz you will have it in and out at least 6-8 times.

Regards, Jeff
1998 K1500 6.5 Coal burner
1965 C10 with 498 BBC AFR Heads
1964 C10 Ran 348W for 6 years, now SBC.

Corvettes owned: '74 '77 '78 L82 Silver Anniversary, 2002 LS1

Don't have a nervous come together!

http://picasaweb.google.com/fritz199090

dvalentine
Senior Member
Posts 9355
02-22-08 10:59 AM - Post#1372150    

DEFINATLY drill holes in the corners first ! Sharp corners will crack !!

Val

salazar44
Senior Member
Posts 835
salazar44
02-22-08 11:05 AM - Post#1372160    

Not sure what you guys mean by drilling holes in the corner.

Are you speaking in terms of the area I am removing from the frame rail? As in making sure they are radiused?

If so, then ok.. thanks for the heads up. otherwise, can you please explain a bit more.
VIC One Repair Leads to Another! My 65 Chevy C-10 Blog

sidworks
Senior Member
Posts 2840
sidworks
02-22-08 11:08 AM - Post#1372163    

that is what they are saying
ron
64 GMC 4x4 1/2t panel
http://s908.photobucket.com/albums/ac281/padresag /...
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salazar44
Senior Member
Posts 835
salazar44
02-22-08 11:13 AM - Post#1372172    

ok.. cool. So what type of blade would be sufficient for my skil saw to bite through that frame rail? Im probably looking at a pretty intense drill bit to right?
VIC One Repair Leads to Another! My 65 Chevy C-10 Blog

Chevy_Stepside
Super Senior Member
Posts 5812
Chevy_Stepside
02-22-08 11:53 AM - Post#1372202    

Acually is it pretty soft steel. If you are going to drill holes just use penetrating oil so keep the bit cool and drill at a slow speed. Friction makes heat and that dulls the drill bit.
"A man and his truck, It's a beautiful thing"
The tour is on again. May 1st 2011. $5 I ride 100 miles. http://main.diabetes.org/site/TR?pg=personal&a mp;f...

dvalentine
Senior Member
Posts 9355
02-22-08 01:37 PM - Post#1372264    

  • Quote:
As in making sure they are radiused?



Yes !

Val

salazar44
Senior Member
Posts 835
salazar44
02-22-08 03:56 PM - Post#1372341    

Im really hoping we can use the rear holes so that no tranny mods will be needed. We might be needing to bang on the firewall for some valve cover clearance.
VIC One Repair Leads to Another! My 65 Chevy C-10 Blog

1965C-10
Very Senior Member
Posts 7068
1965C-10
02-23-08 02:30 PM - Post#1372900    

I did'nt drill holes on mine, oops!

Hmm, well I guess I'm screwed now, although I don't see any cracking yet.

Anything that can be done to help prevent cracks now that it is all said and done?

salazar44
Senior Member
Posts 835
salazar44
02-23-08 02:55 PM - Post#1372912    

Well I guess the point is to not have sharp edges. If you didnt fillet the corners but still have rounded corners then you should be ok.
VIC One Repair Leads to Another! My 65 Chevy C-10 Blog

Chevy_Stepside
Super Senior Member
Posts 5812
Chevy_Stepside
02-23-08 03:18 PM - Post#1372926    

  • salazar44 Said:
Im really hoping we can use the rear holes so that no tranny mods will be needed. We might be needing to bang on the firewall for some valve cover clearance.

When I cut my firewall to fit that engine back I also made it so I could get the valve covers on and off without having to move the engine.
"A man and his truck, It's a beautiful thing"
The tour is on again. May 1st 2011. $5 I ride 100 miles. http://main.diabetes.org/site/TR?pg=personal&a mp;f...

Vaughn
"13th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts 15619
02-23-08 09:13 PM - Post#1373184    

If you need to make some dimples in the firewall to clear valve covers (and there is no other way around it), you can get a HF hydraulic ram kit for bodywork, it will have a hydraulic ram that can be used with a ball (comes in the kit) - test fit the motor, mark for the dimples, then pull the motor out and use the ram to create the dimples. It will have a MUCH more finished look than using a hammer.
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