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Username Post: building a 383, things to think about
grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
05-10-06 06:38 AM - Post#932305    

this is the type of challange/upgrade I work on for the guys all the time, AND IM CERTAINLY NOT SUGGESTING YOU CAN,T REACH YOUR GOAL,THRU OTHER ROUTES, BUT THAT APPROCHING THE PROBLEM LOGICALLY ITS FAIRLY EASY TO PLAN YOUR GOALS AND COURSE TO ACHEIVE THEM,
the first thing youll need to get strait in your mind is the realistic budget youll be willing to work with and that performance is basically the result of the power to weight ratio and HOW effectively you can get the power to the ground. keep in mind that for a street car your NOT building the engine for max peak power, your looking to build for the best average power/tq curve over the rpm range youll use most

AND THAT HAVING SLIGHTLY MORE HP THAN THE MINIMUM REQUIRED IS SMART, simply because you won,t always have the ideal tune or traction available,its silly to shoot for minimum levels yet its a waste of money to over build the engine, to levels youll seldom use or even want, as theres always compromizes in driveability

ok first Id point out that its silly to build anything smaller than a 383 displacement simply because youll make significantly greater total power from a larger engine than a smaller one,COSTS for a 383 are just not that much higher than a 350, and its TOTAL POWER not horsepower per cubic inch your interested in!

next,CORRECTLY MATCHING the cylinder heads, cam and compression ratio , to the rpm range where youll get the best results is where youll make most of your power potential.

think it thru before buying parts, and only sellect those components that match your goal,by far the most comon mistake is randomly sellecting mis-matched parts because you "GOT A DEAL"

ok lets look at your options, to keep costs reasonable we want to use what we can from your current engine but its insane to limit yourself to parts that restrict your potential power levels severly like the current heads,intake and rear gear ratio.



the formula for hp is (tq x rpm/5252=hp
example
450 ft lbs of torque at 3000rpm=257hp
450 ft lbs of torque at 6000rpm=514hp
because the torque is available at that higher RPM RATE and at the higher rpm useing gearing the rotational force the engine supplied can be applied faster or slower to the rear tires

here read these ALL CAREFULLY
http://www.69mustang.com/hp_torque.htm

http://www.ubermensch.org/Cars/Technical/hp-tq/

http://vette.ohioracing.com/hp.html

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/engine1.htm

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/horsepower.htm

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question622.htm
where most guys go wrong is in not correctly matching the cars stall speed and gearing to the cars tq curve, if you mod the engine for increased high rpm performance but fail to also match the stall speed and gearing to that higher rpm tq curve much of the potential improvement is wasted.


calculate, your minimum hp levels needed

http://www.runeb.org/www_docs/Jexoticasite/frames/horsepowercalc.htm

http://www.stealth316.com/2-calc-hp-et-mph.htm

http://www.gordon-glasgow.org/hpcalc.html


a few calculations will quickly point out that your realy looking to have between 350-400 rear wheel hp, that basically translates into an engine making about 18% higher power at the flywheel, so lets assume or goal is a 420-450 hp engine, now your basic 383 will be correctly designed and matched to a rear gear ratio in the 3.73-4.11 rear gear so youll maximize the area in the torque curve that can give the best results, the 2500-6000rpm band. so thats where we NEED TOO concentrate our efforts. this should point out the stall speed of about 2500-2800rpm is ideal in this application to match your needs


look at this chart, it shows the ideal durration for best results at differant rpm bands, well want the MINIMUM DURRATION that will supply our needs thats going to be in the 220-230 range for street use,while the 230-235 range would be about ideal for power.
we quickly find that durration will match to a 10:1-10.5:1 cpr if we want to use pump gas.

ok,now the CYLINDER HEADS and intake NEED to supply that RPM RANGE and DISPLACEMENT, youll want a set of heads that flow about 230cfm AT .500 lift at the least,to easily match that requirement.

currently this is a good choice in performance per dollar in heads

heads

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/se...7&langId=-1

cam

(READ THIS)
http://www.idavette.net/hib/camcon.htm


(minimum cost flat tappet hydrolic)
http://www.crower.com/misc/cam_spec/cam_finder.php?part_num=00231&x=35&y=13

http://www.cranecams.com/?show=browsePar...rtType=camshaft

upgraded ROLLER CAM
(what IM useing in my similar engine)

http://www.cranecams.com/?show=browsePar...lvl=2&prt=5

(what ID use if I was to build it again)

http://www.crower.com/misc/cam_spec/cam_finder.php?part_num=00471&x=20&y=9


stroker kits

http://www.speedomotive.com/383%20Mighty%20Mouse.htm


http://www.naparts.com/ProductModelDetail.cfm?ProductModelId=1674
http://www.speedomotive.com/383Forged.htm

oil pan
http://www.midwestmotorsportsinc.com/order_part.php?item=CP100LT&line=MWM

to answer some questions

WHATS REQUIRED?

installing a longer 3.75 stroke crank assembly
Ive built dozens of 383 and 396 sbc engines and the clearancing can be done BY YOUR OWN HANDS with a standard HAND HELD drill and a few CARBIDE BURRS OR GRIND STONES in that drill in well under two hours if you take your time and total expence even if you need to buy that drill and burrs will be well under $50 total
http://www.click-onsource.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=O VAL_1-4_Shank

buy a 1/2" burr and a cheap drill

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20776&it em=4358782476&rd=1

place you old bearings in the block an place the crank in those bearings after coating them with axle grease
slowly rotate the crank and grind a minimum of .060 clearance anywhere the counter weights might touch the block and try NOT to grind more than about .070 any place it touches the block (use a JUMBO size paper clip as a gauge if you don,t have feeler gauges)
next assemble two connecting rods and pistons, one connecting rod and piston for the left one connecting rod and piston for the right, use old bearings coated with axle grease and no rings on the pistons, assemble them to the crank and grind anyplace the rods touch the block, grind minimum of .060 clearance and try NOT to grind more than about .070 any place the rods touche the block (use a LARGE size paper clip as a gauge if you don,t have feeler gauges)move them to the next journal and repeat untill all 4 journals and 8 connecting rods clear. now assemble all eight rods and pistons without rings and install them in thier correct locations and recheck everthing carefully.
next intall the cam and index it correctly with the timeing chain/gears, rotate the engine slowly and look for clearance issues, between the cam and rods/rod bolts ,youll need to use a small base cam if there are major clearance issues but in most cases if your cams lift and duration is under about 230 at .05 and .500 lift there should be minor if any clearance issues, usually the outside edge of a rod bolt head is the only area needing a touch up.

once everything clears, wash all the parts VERY CAREFULLY ,TWICE and re-oil then send out to be ballanced now you might ask why do that! well, first youll know its done correctly, and that a correctly built 383 will have a very significant hp and torque advantage over any similar 327 or 350

how much power I'll get.

that of couse depends on the combo, cpr, cam,ETC. but you can assume about a 40hp/40 ft lbs increase over a similarly built 350
http://www.cranecams.com/?show=browsePar...lvl=2&prt=5

heres the SMALL BASE CAM I USE IN MY 383
NOTICE it has a .900 base circle



http://www.newcovenant.com/speedcrafter/tech/camshaft/1.htm

"The camshaft is a straight metal shaft with bumps on it. The bumps are called lobes. The gray area in the picture is the shaft's "base circle." The blue area in the picture is the lobe. The area of the base circle opposite the lobe is the "heel." The tip of the lobe is called the "nose" or "toe." (Get it? Heel? Toe?) As the camshaft rotates, the engine's valve lifters (called "followers" in overhead cam engines) ride on the surface of the base circle and the lobes. When a lobe passes under the lifter, the lifter is pushed up. The lifter is connected to the top of a valve by various means (depending on the engine), and pushes the valve open.
Between the edges of the lobe and the heel are areas called "Clearance Ramps." These are places that are higher than the base circle, but only slightly. When the lifter is on the clearance ramps, it moves very slowly. The valve is not open enough to pass any significant amount of air or exhaust, but it is open. The clearance ramps are there to reduce forces on the valve train that could tear it apart or allow the valve to slam against its seat in the cylinder head.
The distance between the base circle and end of the toe is the lift. More specifically, as you will see later, it is called the "lift at camshaft."

most cams have a base circle closer to a diameter between 1.1" and 1.2"

ID STRONGLY suggest getting a CRANE CAM thier QUALITY seems to be far better than some others I could name


a small base circle gives more clearance because your cam lobe lift is the differance between the base circle and the lobe nose, lets assume a .500 lift on a chevy sb
they normally use a 1.5 ratio rocker so the cam lobe needs to be .3334 tall , so with a standard base circle the lobe nose swings in a circle thats about 1.766 in dia.
(
a small base circle cam like my crane with its .900 dia. with the same lobe would only spin in a circle thats about 1.568 in dia. giving about 0.100 inches MORE CLEARANCE TO THE POTENTIAL ROD/CAM CONTACT AREA

Detonation vs power

some of the major factors in your engines potential power, is the volumetric efficiency (how efficiently you fill and empty the cylinders) and the octane of the fuel used, compression ratio and detonation limits,
With detonation, prevention the main factors are
Ignition timing
Quench
FUEL OCTANE
DCR
and cylinder heat level
you’ll be fairly safe if you stay under
8.5:1 dcr at 170f degrees
8.25 dcr at 180f degrees
7.8:1 dcr at 210f degrees
and keep the quench in the .036-.043 range
heres some differant calculators
http://www.kb-silvolite.com/calc.php?action=comp2
http://www.wallaceracing.com/dynamic-cr.php
http://www.smokemup.com/auto_math/compression_ratio.php
http://not2fast.wryday.com/turbo/compression/cranking_pressure.shtml
average the results

the numbers are for 92 octane premium gas run at a 14.7:1 a/f ratio

BTW heres a VERY SIMILAR GRAPH



richen up the mix to 12.5:1 for max power/tq vs low emmissions and you can cheat slightly as the cylinder temps go down slightly.
keep in mind ALUMINUM absorbs and allows the transfer of heat to the coolant at a much faster rate, so your less likely to have cylinder temps raise into the detonation range as quickly.
and it should be obvious that your igntion curve and spark strength will also effect results, personally Ive found the BETTER MSD multi strike ignitions keep the cylinders cleaner and less likely to detonate

btw, reading material

http://www.kennedysdynotune.com/Dynamic%20Compression%20Tech.htm

http://www.misterfixit.com/deton.htm

http://www.federal-mogul.com/cda/content/front/0,2194,2442_7359_7525,00.html

http://www.diabolicalperformance.com/hotrodoctane.html

http://www.sdsefi.com/meltdown.htm

http://www.procharger.com/intercooled.shtml

http://www.kb-silvolite.com/article.php?action=read&A_id=36

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/94138/

http://racingarticles.com/article_racing-10.html

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0311em_power_squeeze/index.html
ChevyNova79
Senior Member
Posts 264
ChevyNova79
05-10-06 07:57 AM - Post#932306    

Great post grumpy. I haven't finished reading it yet, but I had one question. Is there anyway to get the camshaft selection chart bigger? Its too small to read everything on it, unless there was a link to it I missed.

But so far I really appreciate the post, since I'm thinking of putting in the money for a 383.
79 Nova http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/532696

doc1
Senior Member
Posts 457
05-10-06 07:58 AM - Post#932307    

Grumpy.
You have taken a lot of time, and written a comprehensive tutorial. I did about the same thing with mine, except, the person who built my engine had a jig to grind the contact points on the block. I went with a real mild cam and I have never looked back.
In my opinion, you wrote a real comprehensive, makes sense article. Good job.
I really like my engine. The 383/350 is a good runner.
In the beginning was the Floyd, the Floyd was with him, and he was with the Floyd. Syd Barret left right after the happening.
Big blocks rule!

MikeB
Senior Member
Posts 9475
MikeB
05-10-06 03:48 PM - Post#932308    

Damn, just when I thought I wanted a 327!

What compression ratio/solid cam/heads would you recommend for a street-only 383 with wide ratio Muncie, 3.42 axle, and 26" tires? I'm guessing 9.5:1, 215-220 intake duration, and 180cc heads.
Real Hot Rods have a Clutch!

1955 210 2dr: 327, Brodix IK180 heads, Jones cam, M20, Wilwood front brakes

1982 C-10 SWB pickup, 250 six, 3-speed

My car pictures


305Chevy
Member
Posts 76
05-10-06 07:28 PM - Post#932309    

All I can say is wow. Grumpy, you give enormous amounts of advice and instruction. I was debating between a 350 or a 383 build; I now know what I'll do. Thanks.
'84 Caprice: 600cfm Eddy, RPM intake, ported 416 heads, rear frame brace, 9C1 police swaybars, Monroe Sensa-tracs

CNC BLOCKS N/E
Senior Member
Posts 825
CNC BLOCKS N/E
05-11-06 02:46 AM - Post#932310    

Quote:

All I can say is wow. Grumpy, you give enormous amounts of advice and instruction. I was debating between a 350 or a 383 build; I now know what I'll do. Thanks.




Do you know of a guy Mark Burch who builds sprint car engines as we machine some blocks for those guys as there cars seem to run good where ever they run.
salazar44
Senior Member
Posts 835
salazar44
05-11-06 06:06 AM - Post#932311    

Did somebody say sticky!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
VIC One Repair Leads to Another! My 65 Chevy C-10 Blog

305Chevy
Member
Posts 76
05-14-06 07:45 PM - Post#932312    

Quote:

Quote:

All I can say is wow. Grumpy, you give enormous amounts of advice and instruction. I was debating between a 350 or a 383 build; I now know what I'll do. Thanks.




Do you know of a guy Mark Burch who builds sprint car engines as we machine some blocks for those guys as there cars seem to run good where ever they run.




No, I can't say that I do. I'm just a 19 year old kid who lurks around here trying to learn as much as I can.
'84 Caprice: 600cfm Eddy, RPM intake, ported 416 heads, rear frame brace, 9C1 police swaybars, Monroe Sensa-tracs

grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
05-16-06 09:05 AM - Post#932313    

this may help also

http://www.bracketmasters.com/small_block_stroker_383_cu.htm

http://www.prewittracing.com/newpage2.htm



need a few pictures?
this may help
the comon areas are the area near the block oil pan rail where the rod bolts touch
and the lower inner cylinder walls and where the cam lobes touch the rod bolts upper shoulder on some types of rods, now you can,t grind on the cam, but you can grind the edge of the rod bolt and you can use a small base circle cam to give greater clearances







http://www.karl-ellwein.org/2005engineprojects/388project.htm






"What do you think about hard blocking the bottom inch of the block?"

hard block porded in the cylinder base area up to the level of the bottom of the freeze plugs has little effect on the cooling and adds significantly to cylinder strength on thin bore walls, so yeah! any time you exceed about a ..040 overbore its a good idea. as it significantly strengthens the blocks walls

GOOD
http://store.summitracing.com/default.as...p;x=19&y=11

MUCH BETTER, because it gets into the fine cracks and pores in the cast block surface, as its a liquid epoxy and holds far better than the basically structural concrete that moroso sells

http://www.matweb.com/search/SpecificMaterialText.asp?bassnum=PDEVCON05
" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"

grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
05-18-06 03:22 AM - Post#932314    

QUENCH??
http://www.100megsfree4.com/dictionary/car-dicq.htm

quench area:
A zone in the combustion chamber where the piston at top dead center is very close to the cylinder head. Because the piston and cylinder head is cooler than the unburned part of the fuel-air mixture (i.e., end gas), they pull the heat from the end gas. Because the end gas is now cooler, detonation is quenched or reduced. However, the process does form unburned hydrocarbons.

SQUISH
An area in the combustion chamber of some engines where the piston squishes or squeezes part of the fuel-air mixture at the end of the compression stroke. As the piston approaches top dead center, the mixture is pushed out of the squish area and this promotes turbulence, further mixing of the fuel-air mixture and more efficient combustion

run less than about .035 thousands and at high rpm levels the pistons might hit the cylinder heads, run more than about .044 thousands the QUENCH effect of forceing the fuel air mix to the center of the cylinder from the cylinders edge area looses both speed and effectiveness, remember the quench area must be so tight that virtually all the fuel/air mix is forced (squished) into the center area and none is allowed to burn untill its squirted into the burn area increaseing turbulance and burn efficiency
in theory the much better quench, combined with the shorter more compact area the flame front needs to cover and the far higher turbulance combine to allow more of the pressure to build AFTER the crank passes TDC on the end of compression and begining of the power stroke

its mostly an advantage in that you get a more even and FASTER burn in the cylinder and less chance of detonation, simply because both the lower time and faster pressure curves favor the ignition flame front vs detonation
look, it takes approximately 40 thousands of a second for the flame from the ignition to cross a 4.25" bore,at low rpms and still takes about 15 milliseconds at high RPM due to the much faster movement of the compressed fuel air mix in the cylinders, lets look at what that means
if the chevy plug is located 4/5ths of the way to one side thats a time of about 32 thousands for the pressure to build as the flame travels 3.4" in the chevy but in a compact combustion chamber it could only take the cylinder flame front less than 10-20 thousands of a second to travel acrossed the combustion chamber for a complete burn at low rpms, this of course speeds up as the swirl and turbulance increase with increased engine RPMs but the ratios stay similar. this results in more useable energy WORKING on the piston AFTER IT PASSES TOP DEAD CENTER ON THE POWER STROKE. BUT MODERN WEDGE combustion chambers use increased QUENCH to speed the flame front and lower the burn time combined with a smaller combustion chambers.
the differance may be easier to grasp if you think of the quench area as a significant part of the total combustion chamber voluum,thats forcing its potential fuel/air mix into the central combustion chamber as a jet of highly compressed F/A mix, like the differance between lighting a cup of gasoline by simply placing it next to a camp fire vs throwing it violently into a camp fire

look at this chart
http://www.iskycams.com/ART/techinfo/ncrank1.pdf

keep in mind that the cylinder pressure starts, builds to a peak and drops off all before the piston moves more than about 1/2 inch away from TDC and that if your wasteing 10-20 degrees of rotation compressing the burning mix in a slow to ignite combustion chamber your wasteing engine power
http://chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/94138/

http://naca.larc.nasa.gov/reports/1939/naca-tm-914/

http://www.me.gatech.edu/energy/ICEngines/8_CylinderCombustionProcesses.pdf


http://www.nedians.8m.com/Comp_IC.html

http://mb-soft.com/public2/engine.html


[

LOOK CLOSELY AT THESE PICTURES

you only have QUENCH if theres a flat area on the piston that mates to a matching flat area on the combustion chamber roof, on these pistons dual quench areas throw the compressed fuel/air mix to the center from the twin quench areas
notice, if used with this head, that only one side would have a fairly large and EFFECTIVE QUENCH area ,(the side away from the spark plug)



things to read
http://chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/94138/

http://www.theoldone.com/archive/quench-area.htm



http://racehelp.com/article_racing-10.html



http://members.uia.net/pkelley2/DynamicCR.html
patman
Member
Posts 106
patman
05-18-06 02:16 PM - Post#932315    

Grumpy...I'm honored you used my pictures! (last 3 of the rod clearance pictures are from my 406 build) Still workin' on putting it together...

http://www.bracketracer.com/engine/engine.htm

Pat
grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
05-18-06 03:45 PM - Post#932316    

thanks for making them available patman
!
MY skills at posting CLEAR PICTURES Ive taken leave alot to be desired at times
" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"

partsdan
Member
Posts 1
07-18-06 03:51 PM - Post#932317    

nice post as always grumpy.hope your doing good, im at a new dealership, ive got #'s if you want em. havent been here in a month of sundays. good to be back and i hope your doing good.
Thadd
"12th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts 11138
Thadd
07-19-06 11:40 AM - Post#932318    

Another thing is to bolt the pan on and check clearances again. Somehow, during the building of one of my 383's, the original Corvette pan that I had clearanced got swapped for one that went on a customers car. When I installed the pan, the engine went right into the car. When it was fired, it had a very obvious knock. Pulling a 383 out of an S-10 is a pain, but it had to be done.
One rod bolt was hitting the pan rail just above the oil filter. One whack with a hammer fixed it. I know to measure twice whack once, but in this case I got in a hurry and didn't do the final checks as I should have and it cost me....
Proud member of the BABY BLUE T-SHIRT BROTHERHOOD

grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
07-24-06 02:21 AM - Post#932319    

heres a few things that should always be checked on an engine build

heads
are the pushrods perfectly strait?
do the pushrods flow oil?
rocker studs/guides torqued correctly?
do the head bolts have washers under the bolt heads? are they the correct length for the cylinder heads in use?
have the heads been pocket ported?
combustion chambers unshrouded?
intake ports gasket matched"
are the valve guides cut to the correct length?
are the heads pocket ported?
is the retainer to valve guide clearance correct?
are the valve guide oil seals installed?
is there valve spring seats installed?
inner damper springs installed?
spring bind height checked? (to exceed max valve lift by .050 min.)
oil return holes cleaned of casting flash?
were steam holes in heads necessary?
were the spark plug threads of a installed spark plug extending into the combustion chamber?
rocker slot to rocker stud clearances ?
retainer to valve guide clearances?
spring bind height checked for the correct spring pressure?
valve lash/preload ?
are the valve springs the correct tension,height?dia.
keeper the correct angle? style? size?
valve seats the correct angles?
valves back cut?
valves the correct length, stemsthe correct diam.
strait?
rockers the correct ratio?
were the valve to valve guide clearances checked?
were the heads milled?
did the head gasket overlap the bore?
what are your valve train clearances?
is the rocker arm geometry correct!
chambers CC,ed
port work..(some steps optional)

(1) open throat to 85%-90% of valve size
(2)cut a 4 angle seat with 45 degree angle .065-.075 wide where the valve seats and about .100 at 60 degrees below and a .030 wide 30 degree cut above and a 20 degree cut above that rolled and blended into the combustion chamber
(3)blend the spark plug boss slightly and lay back the combustion chamber walls near the valves
(4)narrow but dont shorten the valve guide
(5) open and straiten and blend the upper two port corner edges along the port roof
(6) gasket match to/with intake and raise the port roof slightly
(7) back cut valves at 30 degrees
(8) polish valve face and round outer edges slightly
(9)polish combustion chamber surface and blend edges slightly
(10) remove and smooth away all casting flash , keep the floor of the port slightly rough but the roof and walls smoothed but not polished.
(11) use a head gasket to see the max you can open the combustion chamber walls
(12) blend but don,t grind away the short side radias


block
is the oil pump pick-up mounted 3/8"-1/2" from the oil pan floor/
is the windage screen mounted about 1/8" from the rotateing assembly/
is the pick-up brazed to the pump body?
has the oil pump relief piston in the oil pump been checked for free ,easy movement? clearance? spring tension?
is the oil pump pick-up tube inserted too far into the oil pump body,(binding the gears)
has the block been clearanced for the rotating assembly?
has the block been aline honed?
is the crank strait?
are the damper install keyway and threads ok?
counter weights clearanced?
MAGNAFLUXED?
OIL PASSAGES CLEANED?
GALLERY PLUGS INSTALLED CORRECTLY?
has the cam to rod bolt clearance been checked?
piston to valve clearances checked?
piston to bore clearances?
TRUST BEARING CLEARANCE?
what were the piston ring to slot clearances?
RING GAPS?
were the rings all checked individually for end gap in the cylinders they were used/installed in?
were the rings checked to make sure the correct side faced up, and the correct ring was in each groove?
what were the back clearance on the rings?
were the oil ring expanders carefully fitted for correct drag?
were the oil ring scraper ring rails checked for end gap?
total cam lift and remaining clearanceS?
WAS THE CAM DEGREED IN?
main bearing clearances?
what is the main bearing run-out clearance
piston to head clearance? (QUENCH?)
head gasket to coolent holes checked?
magnets installed?
rod bolt to block clearances?
what tq reading is necessay to spin the crank with no rods attached?
are the rod bolts and main caps torqued correctly? (rod bolts checked with a bolt stretch gauge?)
did you check the block for a strait main cap alignment?
what size journals and what were the bearings edge to filet clearance??
are the journals checked for finish and run-out/tapper?
did you use moly lube to assemble?
correct bearing crush?
did you pre-lube before start-up?
did the distributor gear fit the cam gear precisely?
was the distributor oil flow mod done?
was the correct style distributor gear used?
did you check the piston to piston pin bores for fit and clearance?
did the piston pins to snap ring clearance seem overly tight?
if they are pressed pins were they correctly matched and checked for free movement in the pistons?
was the engine ballanced?
cam button installed?, and lock plate installed?
were the rods resized? checked for parrallel bores/were the rods strait?
piston valve clearance notchs correctly located on the pistons? edges smoothed?
were the rods checked for length?
is there a few thousands clearance on the oil pump drive shaft AFTER the distributors bolted down?
did you install a steel collar on the oil pump drive shaft?
was the rod to piston pin side clearance checked? (at 4 places seperated bye 90 degree spots)
does the oil pump drive shaft mid section clear the block with the pump installed?
whats the starter to flywheel gear clearance?
is the pilot bearing to trans imput shaft clearance ok?
is the front motor mount bolt to fuel pump pushrod clearance ok? did the fuel pump pushrod move easily/
are you possitive the pistons were installed with the correct valve relief in the correct location?(eiieeiie) were the pistons installed with the correct side facing forward/
what torque values were used on all fasteners/ were they the correct length and type bolts?
were the bores honed with a torque plate in place?
was the cylinder finish correct for the type rings used?
was the oil pump itself checked for free spin and clearance AFTER THE PICK-UP WAS INSTALLED?
was the cam drive checked for free rotation and drag/
were the oil passage plugs drilled for extra oil flow?
were the lifter bores checked?
cam to timing cover clearance?
cam journal to cam bearing clearances?
was the cam journal run-out checked?
was the cam degreed in or just lined up useing factiory index marks?
has the rod and windage screen to oilpan clearnce been checked?
does the dipstick & tube clear the windage screen?
was the cam lobes/LSA/LIFT CHECKED?
is the deck square/level?
whats the cross hatch hone angle?
what grit hone was used? is it correct for the rings used?
are all the threads clean/clear?
brass freeze plugs installed?
block painted?
a few things to check

are the connecting rods installed with the beveled edge facing out on each pair with the bearing installed with the bevel facing out on both the lower and upper rod bearings also?

are you using beveled bearing shells that match the cranks throw bevels?

what are the bearing clearances? (are they the same checking at 90.120.160 degrees from the first measurement?}

what are the connecting rod side clearances?

is the crank strait? has it been turned undersize? if so...on ALL the rods? on ALL the mains? or on ALL the BEARINGS JOURNALS OR ONLY SOME?

whats the TRUST BEARING CLEARANCE?

is the piston side clearance correct?

are the pistons installed in the correct cylinders? (intake and exhaust notches correctly located to match the cylinder head)

are you POSSITIVE each main cap is in the correct location and FACING THE CORRECT DIRRECTION?

did you use MOLY assembly lube?

did you check EACH INDIVIDUAL RING ON EACH PISTON for ring gap clearance,AND that the rings fit the piston ring slots correctly? are any rings installed in the wrong ring slots (2nd ring in top slot ETC,)or upside down

do the rings have back clearance?

were the cylinders CORRECTLY HONED?

is the cam drive binding?

does the crank contact the windage screen?
does the dipstick tube or dip stick touch the crank at any point?

is the oil pump /cam gear binding?

did you check that the oil pump mounting bolt does NOT contact the back surface of the rear main BEARING under the main cap?

is the block warped, checked carefully?,was it line honed?


are the piston pins centered? do the pistons rotate thru an arc with little resistance?

are there any lock pins, spirolocs, tru-arcs contacting the cylinder walls?

are you sure the bearing shells are installed correctly and the locating tabs are in the correct slots?
are they the correct bearings for the application? or did you just assume the part guy knew what he was doing?
did you MEASURE or GUESS, did you at least use Plastigauge and a torqure wrench?


did you check EACH AND EVERY journal for tapper and roundness

did you get the rotateing assembly ballanced???


____________________________________

retired engineer,engine builder, racer
" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"

coolvelle
Senior Member
Posts 54
coolvelle
09-08-06 06:34 PM - Post#932320    

This is an awesome post. Thanks!!
1972 chevelle 383 stroker/ 425hp, holley750 4150, Th350 3000 stall 3:90 gears MSD all the way! Living a childhood dream! http://www.picturetrail.com/uid6740038

grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
10-15-06 04:44 AM - Post#932321    

http://www.ryanscarpage.50megs.com/combos2.html

look thru this, the one factor that should become clear is that DISPLACEMEN, GOOD HEADS,COMPRESSION, and a decent MATCHED CAM will have a HUGE effect on your results, failure to use a decent set of heads will severly limit your power potential, figure on spending a minimum of 1/3 of the total budget on the heads and cam alone....and be aware you must match the rear gear and stall to the cylinder heads port size and the cams power band
" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"

livebeatdad
Member
Posts 2
livebeatdad
10-18-06 05:26 PM - Post#932322    

I am a wet behind the ears newbie and thank you in advance for your patience. I am wanting to built a 383 Stroker and this will be my 1st engine build (father, son, son, son project). I have a 72 Suburban, stock 350 motor/trans., 3.73 gears, quadrajet carb, 2.5 inch headers, 6 inches of lift and 35 inch tires.I was wondering if you might have any advice in regards to bang vs. buck. I found this kit:



Fully prepared block, magged, powerhoned, brass freeze plugs, cam bearings, pistons, reconditioned crank & rods, MI 77 bearings, moly rings, performance cam and lifters, FelPro gaskets, high volume oil pump, double roller chain, all parts balanced.
CHEVY CAST PISTONS FORGED
383 4 Bolt $1100.00 $1200.00

larryskit

Please forgive my lack of experience but I was hoping that you all might be able to recommend heads, intake and a carb for the finished product. We often tow and offroad as much as we can. Thanks again.
Any fool can make a baby, but it takes a man to raise a child!

kevindtimm
Frequent Contributor
Posts 1945
kevindtimm
10-19-06 04:37 AM - Post#932323    

I'm no expert, but (IIRC) 2.5" headers would be huge (and mostly for high revs). Typical grunt headers would be of the 1 5/8" variety instead. Measure your tubes (at the head) that will give you a true reading (don't measure at the collecter).
2008 Equinox LS - My only Chevy right now

grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
10-19-06 07:07 AM - Post#932324    

the kit you sellected looks like a reasonable choice for your application

Id suggest this cam, intake and heads keeping in mind that the build is designed for low rpm towing (TORQUE) as the prime design feature and LOW PRICE as a significant factor in parts sellected

http://www.cranecams.com/index.php?show=...lvl=2&prt=5

these heads (youll need two)

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/se...ategoryId=19715

Action +Plus Intake Manifold>
1955-86 262-400ci w/Vortec (L31) heads
4150 Carb Flange
Idle-5500 RPM Range

925-8121

Designed to use stock GM intake gasket p/n 809-89017465
No EGR provisions
Permanent Mold Casting
Action +Plus Intake Manifold>
1955-86 262-400ci w/Vortec (L31) heads
4150 Carb Flange
Idle-5500 RPM Range

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/se...ategoryId=15917


tPerformer Series Carb
600 cfm
Electric Choke
50-State Legal for All Pre-1980 GM V8's
Maximum Fuel Economy Calibrated

350-1400

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/se...ategoryId=12625
63ss409
Member
Posts 20
11-24-06 01:23 PM - Post#932325    

Grumpy,
Need some advice on a 383 for my '87 Vette. Its a daily driver, auto xsmn, 3.07 rear. I was considering a Scat cast 3.75 "internal balance" crank (has larger counterweights but has to use 6" rods), Scat stroker rods (6"), and a ZZ4 cam that a friend gave me from his crate engine. I have a set of alum. 58cc 113 heads that will be mildly ported, an accel intake manifold, LPE large tube runners, and a mildly ported plenum. I will have the block decked for better quench, but I am undecided on pistons and need to choose these first. I was looking at Wiseco forged dished ones, but they are a bit expensive. Can I go with a good set of cast ones to save a little cash? What are the pro's and con's of each? (forged vs cast). This car will never see the track or rpm beyond 5500.
1FATGMC
Senior Member
Posts 336
1FATGMC
11-24-06 02:33 PM - Post#932326    

Quote:

Grumpy,
Need some advice on a 383 for my '87 Vette. Its a daily driver, auto xsmn, 3.07 rear. I was considering a Scat cast 3.75 "internal balance" crank (has larger counterweights but has to use 6" rods), Scat stroker rods (6"), and a ZZ4 cam that a friend gave me from his crate engine. I have a set of alum. 58cc 113 heads that will be mildly ported, an accel intake manifold, LPE large tube runners, and a mildly ported plenum. I will have the block decked for better quench, but I am undecided on pistons and need to choose these first. I was looking at Wiseco forged dished ones, but they are a bit expensive. Can I go with a good set of cast ones to save a little cash? What are the pro's and con's of each? (forged vs cast). This car will never see the track or rpm beyond 5500.




The 58 cc heads are really going to push the compression ratio up there with a 383. I would check the compression and DCR with the pistons and cam to make sure you will be happy if this is a street car.

I just put some keith black hypereutectic (KB121) in a 383. They have a 28 cc dish and would put you at about 9.3 static compression with those heads which I would guess would be pretty good on 91 octane and maybe a lower octane. I couldn't figure the DCR as I don't know the specs on that cam. I think some of the guys on here don't like the KB pistons, but can't remember why.

I'll be interested in Grumpy's reply myself.

c ya,

Sum

DCR Combinations That Have Worked
1FATGMC Lakester Construction

63ss409
Member
Posts 20
11-25-06 02:38 AM - Post#932327    

I know I will have to compute the DCR correctly with these 58cc heads. I just need some input on which style of piston would be better for this street driven car. I know the forged pistons will rattle a bit until they get up to operating temperature. The cast ones can be fitted with smaller clearances, but I also have heard some negative comments on the KB hyper's. Considering this is going to be a "mild" 383, I figured the forged ones may be a bit of overkill and expense. I have another block that I'm going to use, so I can take my time. The original engine in the car still runs well, but has excessive leakdown in #6 and blows air out the dipstick tube during the test.
grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
12-30-06 03:16 PM - Post#932328    

on a street car its a good idea to hedge your bets and not run on the ragged edge of potential destruction, ID suggest staying UNDER 10.5:1 static and 8:1 dynamic CPR and keeping the quench in the .038-.045 range, coolant temps under 200F and the correct heat range plugs while useing HIGH TEST FUEL,(92-93 octane)
you can make decent power with a static cpr between 9:1 and 10:1 if you get the matching components.
If you can,t get that octane, either use a fuel booster, cut your cpr or retard the ignition curve, and richen the a/f mix slightly to cool the cylinder burn temp under high loads.
while Ive always PREFERED forged pistons due to the fact that they tend to absorb heat/detonation longer before failing, theres nothing wrong with hypereutectic pistons provided you realize the limitations, example
I built a 10.2:1 cpr 383 with KB hypereutectic pistons a few years ago and it KICKED BUTT, made about 420hp/450 tq and had a guys nova running consistant 13.20s with a stock trans and 3.08:1 gear and skinny tires,he did that for several years UNTILL one day when he advanced the timing about 5 degrees at the local track, thinking that adding a couple gallons of race gas to his nearly full tank of fuel would protect the engine,... IT DIDN,T ...and HE MELTED two pistons,.... broke rings and cracked both heads with the busted ring lands getting compressed between the heads and pistons.
we REBUILT the engine useing FORGED pistons, and hes more careful about the ignition curve and fuel, theres no real differance in performance, just a slight edge in durrability
grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
12-31-06 05:01 AM - Post#932329    





72vega
Senior Member
Posts 481
72vega
01-01-07 06:30 PM - Post#932330    

alot of great info, answered most of my questions.. but what if someone wanted to build a supercharged 383 using a centrifugal Procharger? what pistions do i use? i know i need dished pistons, but who makes one for a use like that? im not finding much for dished 383 pistons, maybey im looking in the wrong place.
grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
01-02-07 04:41 AM - Post#932331    

http://www.jepistons.com/cat/je/auto/chevy_sb/extreme_duty_23_inv.shtml

I don,t build many supercharged engines but heres what I would sellect (part # 131631)
KsKustoms
Member
Posts 69
01-02-07 11:56 AM - Post#932332    

JE/SRP Pistons can be ordered with any SCAT rotating Assembly. I would say that if you want to use any forced induction or Nitrous then get the forged pistons. They do make them in all kinds of different dish cc's.
When was Too Much Power a Problem?
Check out the KsKustom Forum on CT

grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
01-29-07 07:24 AM - Post#1082681    

when you get to tunning it?

http://www.bob2000.com/carb.htm

http://www.mortec.com/carbtip1.htm

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autov...
(buy two sets)

http://www.racingsecrets.com/article_racing-13.htm...

http://www.centuryperformance.com/vacuum.asp

http://www.centuryperformance.com/fuel.asp

http://www.goldrush.com/~rhuish/temp_data/car btune...

http://www.bgsoflex.com/holley.html


heres A/F

http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/rsrgauge.htm

http://www.mummbrothers.com/SRF_Stuf...e/Air_Fuel....

http://www.airfuelmeter.com/english/

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lm1.ph...

http://thedynoshop.net/prod01.htm

http://www.dawesdevices.com/airfuelmeter.html

http://fastrides.com/articles/DoItYo...tio_Gauge.h...

http://www.fuelairspark.com/Products...rFuelMeter....

http://www.3barracing.com/product_3.htm


a few places to look for more info on plugs


»http://www.acdelco.com/html/pi_plugs_ident.htm«



»http://members.uia.net/pkelley2/sparkplugrea ding.html

http://www.atlanticjetsports.com/_techtalk/0000000...

http://www.strappe.com/plugs.html«

»http://www.babcox.com/editorial/cm/cm59910.htm

http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/techinfo/spark_plugs/ ...

»http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/spkplghnbook .htm

http://www.tsrsoftware.com/sparkplug.htm



»http://www.dansmc.com/sparkplugs1.htm«

»http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/techinfo/spark_plugs/ overviewp2.asp«

»http://www.centuryperformance.com/spark.asp

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/sparkplugs .htm...


»http://www.powerarc.com/sparkplug.htm

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/64378/

http://dodgeram.org/tech/gas/spark_plugs/ s_plug_fa...

»http://www.centuryperformance.com/spark.asp

http://www.powerarc.com/sparkplug.htm

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/sparkplugs .htm...

http://www.answers.com/topic/spark-plug
" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"

mylesdw
Member
Posts 1
03-22-07 07:30 PM - Post#1126251    

The SBC in my car is an early 327 fitted with a 350 crank turned down to suit the small journal block. Is there any reason why I can't fit a 3.75" crank by turning down the mains in the same way? The plan would be to keep the large journal big-ends and add 6" rods and hypereutectic (sp?) pistons. Any idea if this will yield particular clearance or balance issues?

Cheers
Myles

bad s-dime
Member
Posts 3
04-15-07 06:43 AM - Post#1143267    

Hello everyone, just became a member and I'm looking forward to learning all I can. First off, I gotta say, grumpy, you are the man. And that leads to my question. I am building a street rod s-10. Working on putting a 383 together. Right now I have a forged 4340 3.75" crank, 6.0" Eagle H-beam rods. Aluminum Trick Flow heads(2.02/1.60 valves, 64cc chambers, 195 cc intake runners) Cam is a flat tappet hydraulic 228*/234* duration at .050, .480/.494 lift and 110* lobe sep. I am at a cross-roads for pistons. with a flat top I will be at around a 11.8:1 comp ratio, but a dish would knock me down to a 9.8:1 comp ratio. My plans are to run a 50/50 mix all the time of premium 92 octane and 114 torco. I would at some time put a shot of nitrous to it as well, just for the heck of it. It will be a street rod, not a daily driver, so the cost of the fuel is not my concern. For driveability, albeit mostly just cruisin in town, what would you suggest and is my setup sound moderately functional. Trans is a 700 r4, with 4.11 gears in the rear.

Much Appreciated
Eric
grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
04-15-07 11:23 AM - Post#1143483    

first youll need a higher than stock stall speed converter and ID suggest something in the 2800rpm-3000rpm range
nitrous almost demands FORGED pistons.

http://www.flatlanderracing.com/wisecoprotru-sb08....

http://www.flatlanderracing.com/jechevy-extreme23....

http://kb-silvolite.com/forged.php?action=details&...
" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"

bad s-dime
Member
Posts 3
04-15-07 12:06 PM - Post#1143519    

Do you think it would be possible to run a 50/50 mix of 92 and 114 octane at a compression ratio of 11.8 on the street or would that compression ratio almost demand straight 114?
grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
04-15-07 12:42 PM - Post#1143535    

Id strongly suspect that ignition timing would need to be retarded if you were mixing fuels, but TESTING with your combo will tell for sure.

http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/misc/octaneb ooster...

http://www.prime-mover.com/Engines/GArticles/oct an...

http://www.elektro.com/~audi/audi/toluene.html

http://zhome.com/ZCMnL/PICS/detonation /detonation....

http://www.kemcooil.com/products.php?cId=4

http://www.kemcooil.com/product_info.php?pId=54
" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"

grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
05-31-07 01:48 PM - Post#1176435    

PARTSDAN, I don,t know HOW I missed that post but I did, YEAH! ID love to contact you, please send me a private msg with some contact info!

BTW if anyone else knows how to contact PARTSDAN PLEASE let me know!
" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"

st2joker
Member
Posts 2
06-06-07 06:09 PM - Post#1180690    

you definetly sound like a man i need to talk to. i am building a chevy 383 and i have a few questions.
1. if i am using a complete bottom end from a used 400 do i still need to have it balanced?
2. can i use stock 350 .30 over pistons if i'm using the stock 400 rods?
3. will the stock 350 cam work for a short time?
4. will the stock throttle body work for a shot time?
any info you can give me will be greatly appriciated. i am doing this on a serious budget and its more out of nesessity than performance.
thank you.
craigblock
Valued Contributor
Posts 4008
craigblock
06-06-07 06:19 PM - Post#1180693    

  • st2joker Said:

1. if i am using a complete bottom end from a used 400 do i still need to have it balanced?
3. will the stock 350 cam work for a short time?




I can answer these two. You will need it balanced because 4.030" pistons will not have the same mass as 4.125" pistons. The 350 cam would work in the sense that it will open and close the valves, but it's doubtful that it would make any kind of power.
Casting Numbers

grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
06-07-07 05:55 AM - Post#1180924    

1. if i am using a complete bottom end from a used 400 do i still need to have it balanced?

yes because the pistons will be a different weight


2. can i use stock 350 .30 over pistons if i'm using the stock 400 rods?

http://www.kb-silvolite.com/calc.php?action=piston...

probably as the compression pin height should be ok, as both are close to 1.560" but keep the quench in the .036-.042 range thru use of head gasket thickness and deck height adjustment , and MAKE SURE you check all clearances and measurements ASSUME NOTHING, CHECK EVERYTHING...TWICE,DURING THE PLANNING STAGES, then RECHECK TWICE DURING ASSEMBLY .but you'll still need to rebalance

3. will the stock 350 cam work for a short time?

yes & or no!
the correct answer depends on the heads and compression ratio used, but generally if your close to stock youll be fine all thou youll be at a disadvantage in hp/tq to what a matched cam would provide in airflow thru the engine


4. will the stock throttle body work for a shot time?
no reason it won,t, but again it may require a different tune and software changes or larger injector size to maximize the results

read thru these links
http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...



READ THIS LINKED INFO

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...
" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"

st2joker
Member
Posts 2
06-07-07 09:45 AM - Post#1181081    

i knew you would give me good answers. thank you very much! i appriciate your help!
vetteman2007
Member
Posts 4
07-29-07 04:03 PM - Post#1219476    

wow great information , need much time to learn and absorb.

" Turn Your Bottom Breather Into A Ram Breather "
C4orceCorvette.com

Datsunz8
Newbie
Posts 20
09-26-07 07:40 PM - Post#1262275    

I am in the process of rebuilding my little 385, .040 sbc. I am changing up a few things but have some questions as well.

My motor is a 397010 020 block punched 40 over with a internally forged crank, 6" H-beam rods and JE pistons netting me approx. 11 to 1 compression.

I am running a Comp cams 12-433-8 hyd. roller cam. specs are 236/242 dur. 520/540 lift and 110 ls/106 centerline. I currently have 1.60 R. Rockers on it so lift is higher than advertised.

Heads are mildly ported Canfield 200 cc heads with 2.055/1.60 valves. Victor Jr. Intake and Proform 750 dp carb.

Ignition is a MSD pro billet/6al combo with 32 degree's total timing.

I am running a 700r4 and an Edge racing 9.5" racing converter, 3500 rpm stall.

I am installing a set of AFR 210cc Illiminator race ready heads with 65cc chambers, same as the Canfields but I am looking at converting to a solid roller cam and have talked to the Techs at Crower, Crane and Comp.

I really like the Comp and Crane Mechanical roller cams. Crane said I can run the AFR springs that come on the heads but Comp is saying no way. I am wondering if Comp is just trying to sell me a set of springs. The AFR springs are 225 on the seat and good to 710 lift.

I will run the small base cam either way but one says I do not need special lifters and one says I do. Does anyone know if I need to or not. Sorry but I am not to well versed in the small base stroker cams and the parts needed to run them.

I will post the cam specs in the am and would appreciate any imput you would give in regards to wether you would recommend either camshaft.
Datsunz8
Newbie
Posts 20
09-26-07 08:07 PM - Post#1262297    

Sorry, above post was for Grumpy! My bad.
Datsunz8
Newbie
Posts 20
09-27-07 04:50 AM - Post#1262414    



In regards to my above mentioned 385 build the cams are as follows:

Crane #118591
250-258 dur. .561/561 lift 110 ls

Comp. #12-772-8
248-254 dur. .570/576 lift 110 ls

Is the Crane cam going to be too big for the street? The engine is going in a 1971 Datsun 240Z that weighs approx. 2900 lbs with me in it.
grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
09-27-07 05:50 AM - Post#1262453    

"Is the Crane cam going to be too big for the street?"


I think EITHER CAM is way to large for street use,

but the first thing Id need to know is the tire dia., type of rear suspension,(4 link, ladder bar,ETC.) and rear gear ratio the car will be set up with , because the cams you posted seem to have a good bit more than ideal in durration than Id suspect youll find ideal,for street/strip use. as you may know I seldom run or advise CC components because of a LONG history of BAD ADVICE from thier tech guys ,thier cams are ok, thier tech support leaves a great deal to be expected,the spring rates/clearances and valve train geometry youll need will depend on the components sellected and the rpm ranges that youll run in,a valve stud girdle support or shaft mount rockers MIGHT be a good idea, IF you sellect a mixed batch of parts your manufactures will ALMOST ALWAYS blame (THE OTHER GUYS)for any failures and not honnor the warranty, Id ALSO talk to ISKY , ERSON and CROWER, along with what CRANE told you,I run CRANE,ERSON,CROWER and ISKY components in most builds and have few problems also and get thier input then buy ALL the components from the manufacturer you feel best about....but Id sure ask about long term dependability issues and explain about street driving, potential low rpm use and not let them think the car will be used strictly as a 1/4 mile blast thru and turn it off type application, long term DEPENDABILITY, long drives under lower than max rpm loads and not busting valve train components is a huge concern


this is about the MAX ID think would be ideal

http://www.cranecams.com/?show=browseParts& ;lvl...

" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"

Datsunz8
Newbie
Posts 20
09-27-07 07:04 AM - Post#1262489    

The rear end is a 3.70 geared Nissan Turbo rear end with after market clutched, CV axles and billet stub axles. Yes still an independant rear end.

I am currently running 27.2" tall Mickey Thompson drag radials 255/60-15.

The car went 10.80 at 125 on the old build and low, low 10's on the hose at 133 mph. Can't hit the bottle out of the hole, only 2nd and 3rd gear otherwise I snap stuff!

Mike
grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
09-27-07 09:03 AM - Post#1262562    

then I surely would go NO LARGER than the cam I suggested above, youll spend too much time getting into the upper rpm range with a larger cam like you posted to take full advantage of the minimal hp gains and be loosing far to much lower rpm tq with the larger cams

http://www.cranecams.com/?show=browseParts& ;lvl...

in fact ID look long and hard at this cam,(below), if you do much street driving, if your mostly looking for track times Id use the first crane (above in this post)

http://www.cranecams.com/?show=browseParts& ;lvl...
" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"

Datsunz8
Newbie
Posts 20
09-27-07 03:15 PM - Post#1262820    

I do play on the street some and run it at the track frequently. Guess I am looking for the best of both worlds..Ha!

My current cam 12-433-8 is not a small circle cam, the second cam you mentioned is. Would you recommend going that route?

If I run the small circle cam will I need to purchase special lifters or will they remain standard solid roller lifters?

Thanks
Mike
grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
09-28-07 07:01 AM - Post#1263297    

Ive always run small dia. STEEL billet cam cores in the 383 roller cammed engines with standard roller lifters, just don,t try it with a cast roller cam as its slightly more prone to failing, Ive run erson,crower ,crane isky, and all work fine, but some were cast cores and cast cores WEAR much faster than STEEL BILLET CORES so I always buy the STEEL billet cores now.

EXAMPLE,look closely ERSON OFFERS THREE DIFFERANT TYPES OF ROLLER CAM CORES and one is a standard cast iron core, most other manufacturers also have differant GRADES of cam cores and surface treatments and hardening options

http://www.erson-cams.com/pdf/Chevrolet.pdf

Ive never had any roller cam BREAK, but the cast cores do wear faster and the CRANE CAMS seem to be the best QUALITY cores
" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"

Datsunz8
Newbie
Posts 20
09-29-07 03:40 PM - Post#1264215    

Thanks Grumpy,

I think I will purchase the Crane 118581 cam in a small diameter size. Can I use the springs that AFR sent on the heads?

The only specs I have is 225 at seat and good to .710 lift. 1.55 diameter.

Thanks,
Mike
grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
09-29-07 06:06 PM - Post#1264284    

as ALWAYS, ask the tech guys at the cam and lifter manufacturers tech desks, Id suspect the rates too high, for long term street drive use, but it may be ok, roller cam springs for those type of cams normally have seat pressures that run between 130-215 lbs, in fact look at the suggested springs for both cams, they vary significantly, but as I stated, ask the tech desk guys.
keep in mind theres a BIG differance in building a killer combo that will last a hundred 1/4 mile passes at the track and something you can drive for 60k-70K miles without major maintinance worrys

http://www.racingsprings.com/PDF/beehive.pdf
" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"

Datsunz8
Newbie
Posts 20
10-02-07 10:01 AM - Post#1266009    

True, so true!

Thanks again.
Datsunz8
Newbie
Posts 20
10-03-07 04:48 PM - Post#1267048    

Grumpy,

It appears that I have had a change of heart. I have decided to stay with a hyd. roller after much thinking and talking to the tech at Crane cams.

I am going with a Crane billet 119651, it's a step up from the current Comp Cams hyd. roller I am running now. I will just swap the springs on my heads and because of the cam being a small circle cam cam I will check for push rod length as well.

Hope I do not have to replace them as I am running Manly push rods that are 150 a set...oh well.

Thanks for all your help!

Mike
grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
10-03-07 05:25 PM - Post#1267090    

for those guys that don,t know, heres the cam he sellected

http://www.cranecams.com/?show=browseParts& ;act...


Id bet the thought process was similar to mine, when after trying about 14 differant cams I sellected the crane 119661 as the best compromise, in that I was looking for a performance boost in my 11:1 cpr 383 but wanted low maintinance ,and awsum power with a boost from the nitrous but something that was not a P.I.T.A. to drive normally in traffic.....its not the cam that made the best power but it was the cam that made very good power IN THE RPM RANGE and UNDER the conditions the car was most frequently used in, thus making it the better choice for long term street use in that application

http://www.cranecams.com/?show=browseParts& ;act...


the crower 00471 made better power

http://www.crower.com/misc/cam_spec/cam_fin der.php...

the erson E119813 was the best strictly street driving performancer choice
http://www.erson-cams.com/pdf/Chevrolet.pdf

its stupid in my opinion to build a car for max hp when youll use the car 99% of the time as a street performance application where driveability is a major factor and where youll seldom miss a couple extra hp but youll surely regret putting up with a less than street friendly combo, especially since the cars tires can,t handle the torque under the nitrous at speeds under about 50mph
" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"

Datsunz8
Newbie
Posts 20
10-04-07 03:42 PM - Post#1267786    

Well, I am going to break her down hopefully at the end of next week. Momma's out of town for a week..he he!

Hopefully it will be a simple hone, vat, and bearings and rings...fingers crossed!

Grumpy,

at what point do you replace the hyd. roller lifters? I have maybe 10k on my Comp retro extreme hyd. roller lifters, should I be worried?

Mike
grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
10-04-07 06:23 PM - Post#1267879    

carefully inspect them, if the spring pressures are fairly light and youve not been abusing the engine you should easily get far more than 10k youve got now on those hydrolic roller lifters, Ive got about 40K , PROBABLY pushing things but they look new)on my current set, but I pull and inspect them every couple of thousand miles as I swap and test cams every few months, I try something new,, but after awhile I usually go back to the 119661 crane
keep in mind I have that 10 qt oil pan, windage screen,high voluum oil pump,ETC, and change oil and filters far more often than most guys do,so the internals look new.
Ive seen guys that rarely race get over 80K on stock style hydrolic roller lifters , its excessive spring pressures and lack of frequent oil changes that kills parts.
I never could see the sence in running spring pressures that are designed to keep the lifters on the lobes at 7K plus if the engine very rarely sees 6200-6300rpm and your ignition shuts down on the rev limiter by 6500rpm
" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"

Datsunz8
Newbie
Posts 20
10-08-07 01:45 PM - Post#1269973    

Grumpy,

Got another question for you. Head gaskets, I need to find a good reasonably priced head gasket, non MLS or copper for my .040 over 385 but it needs to be .045 to .050 instaed of the Felpro 1003's that are .039-.041.

I need to keep the quench area around 36-40 thousandths. My block is zero decked and due to a minor misshap I am 4-5 thousandths out of the hole.

I am currently running a Ferrar? head gasket...not sure of the pronunciation or spelling, my last engine builder used them. Either way I cannot find them anywhere so I am stuck. Got any idea's, know of any decent head gaskets at .045 to .050.

Thanks
Mike
grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
10-08-07 03:06 PM - Post#1270039    

Id use these,
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=...


http://www.scegaskets.com/products/ics.html

yeah! I know copper, but Ive had excellent results

ROL gaskets has these

HG31090HT4.090" 0.045" 9.7cc GRAPHITE W/STEEL CORE & STAINLESS
STEEL FIRE RING


http://www.rolmfg.com/media/pdf/xtreme_perf gaskcat...


jegs has these

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/ser vlet/prod...



CAST IRON OR ALUMINUM
" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"

mnblaster
Member
Posts 36
10-10-07 05:16 PM - Post#1271577    

Grumpy, I just got my 383 fresh from my builder. 1969 386 casting block, 4 bolt, Eagle cast steel crank, SIR rods, Speed Pro 2491 flat top forged coated bushed pistons, internal balace to .04 grams.

I am thinking of running the new Comp Cams Thumpr cam, #12-600-8 or #12-601-8 with Brodix IK180 aluminum heads. What do you think of this combo in a mainly street driven '69 Nova. I will be choosing gears and converter based on what I decide from here on out. I have read your post and am keeping it for reference and am open to your suggestions.

thanks
grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
10-10-07 05:39 PM - Post#1271602    

I can,t understand why ANYONE would chose a CC thumper cam, its a cam designed to SOUND radical but its NOT designed to maximize the engines power, only to sound "BAD", thats like a gal having a bussle and a padded bra, it might look ok but you feel cheated when performance comes into question. theres just so many better choices, even some of comps old designs are able to make better power and theres at least a dozen other cam companys that can supply cams that actually make the engine RUN BETTER rather than sound "BAD"

cam selection basics for the newer guys


as I said before, call a minimum of 5 to 7 cam companys you trust, write down the durration , lift and LCA they suggest after giving them all your info and concerns ...DO NOT DISCUSS with them anything another cam company suggested, as that will alter the results. once youve got a minimum of 5 cams, (7 is better) average the results and buy the cam closest to that average, the great think about that methoed is it basically eliminates the ocassional morron you run into at times on help desks from totally screwing up your choice
BTW when in doubt its better to be very slightly under cammed.

you could also buy this, software to play with

http://www.compperformancegroupstore s.com/store/me...

now personally I think the softwaRES USEFUL, FOR COMPARING RESULTS.
BUT I would tend to buy a

CRANE
http://www.cranecams.com/

CROWER
http://www.crower.com/

LUNATI
http://www.holley.com/division/Lunati.asp


ERSON
http://go.mrgasket.com/pdf/Chevrolet.pdf

OR ISKY
CAM

http://www.iskycams.com/



------------------------- ------------------------- ------------------------- -----

I borrowed this of the SUMMIT RACING site, I figured some of the newer guys could use the info

The Basics On Choosing the Right Street Cam
Not so long ago, the bigger is better philosophy reigned supreme regarding camshafts. The result was overcammed engines that sounded great and could crank serious top-end power, but were not very streetable and couldn’t idle to save their lives.

But thanks to modern cam technology, you can come pretty darn close to the Holy Grail of street bumpsticks—cams that make high rpm power, have good low-end torque and drivability, decent vacuum for power brakes, and that loping idle we all love. Camshaft theory is a complex subject that can take a book-length article to explain. We’re going to concentrate on the basics you’ll need to know to choose a good street cam.

Lift and Duration
Lift and duration are the primary factors that determine a cam’s profile. Lift is the amount a cam lobe actually moves a valve off its seat, and is measured in fractions of an inch. Duration is the amount of time a cam keeps a valve off of its seat, measured in degrees of crank rotation.
Lift and duration combined determine total open valve area—the space available for air and fuel to flow into and out of the combustion chamber. The more valve area open to flow, the more power an engine can theoretically make. The trick is to “size” a cam to optimize valvetrain events for your particular engine combination and vehicle.

Cam Sizing
Virtually every cam maker uses duration to rate camshafts. When someone talks about a “big” cam, they are referring to cams with longer duration. This keeps the valves open longer, increasing midrange and top-end power at the expense of low-end torque. A shorter duration cam does just the opposite. Because it doesn’t keep the valves open as long, a smaller cam boosts low rpm torque and drivability. There are two ways to measure duration:
Advertised Duration is the figure you usually see in the cam ads and hear about at those late-night bench races. The problem with advertised duration is cam makers use various methods of measuring it, making it difficult to compare cams from different makers.
Duration at .050 measures duration at .050 inches of valve lift. Since all cam grinders use this measurement, it’s a much more accurate way to make a comparison. Two cams may be very close in advertised duration, for example, but make peak power at different rpms. Summit Racing uses duration at .050 ratings to help you better compare the wide variety of cams it carries.
Lobe Separation
Lobe separation is the number of degrees that separate the peak lift points of the cam’s intake and exhaust lobe. Like duration, lobe separation helps determine the cam’s rpm range. Generally, a cam with wider lobe separation (112-116 degrees) will make power over a wider rpm band. A cam with narrow lobe separation (under 112 degrees) is biased toward peak power and operates within a narrower rpm band.For the street, you want a cam with a fairly wide lobe separation for the best power production over the engine’s entire rpm range. Go too narrow with lobe separation and you may end up with an engine with a peaky powerband biased to high rpm horsepower—not the hot ticket for a street car.

Flat Tappet vs. Roller
Now that you have an idea of what lift and duration are, let’s muddy things up by comparing flat tappet and roller lifter cams. Flat tappet cams use a lifter with a slightly curved bottom that slides against the cam lobes. Virtually every V8 engine built before the late 1980s came with a flat tappet cam; they are reliable and relatively inexpensive. With literally hundreds of profiles to choose from, finding a good flat tappet cam for your street car is not difficult.
Roller cams are hardened steel cams that use lifters with a roller, or wheel, that rolls over the cam lobes. This design dramatically decreases valvetrain friction and wear, and allows designers to create profiles that offer more lift without increasing duration. That means a roller can make more midrange and top end power than a flat tappet cam of the same duration without sacrificing bottom end power. If you need proof that roller cams are better, ask the OEMs what they put in their engines nowadays.

Hydraulic or Solid?
Flat tappet and roller cams for overhead valve engines are available with hydraulic and mechanical lifters. Hydraulic lifters are self-adjusting; they use an oil-damped, spring-loaded plunger to help maintain valve lash (the distance between the valve stem and the rocker arm tip). Hydraulic lifter cams are quiet, require virtually no maintenance, and transmit less shock to the valvetrain. Their main drawback is a tendency to “pump-up” (overfill with oil) and cause the valves to float, or stay open too long, at high rpm. Valve float kills power, and can lead to engine damage if you keep your foot planted in the throttle.
Mechanical, or solid, lifters are not self-adjusting. They rely on a properly set up, adjustable valvetrain to maintain proper valve lash. Because solid lifter cams are less susceptible to valve float at higher rpms, they are ideal for more radical street and racing profiles. The price of running solid lifters is periodic adjustment of valve lash and increased valvetrain noise.

Overhead Cam Considerations
Overhead cam engines, like Ford’s 4.6 and 5.4 liter Modular V8s, follow the same rules regarding cam selection as overhead valve engines. The primary difference is how valve lift is determined. Overhead cam engines don’t use rocker arms, so there is no multiplication effect to increase valve lift (cam lift x rocker arm ratio = valve lift). Thus, cam lift and valve lift are the same.
The only way to increase lift with an overhead cam is to reduce the diameter of its base circle (the rounded bottom portion of the lobes). Changing the base circle increases valve lash as well, requiring the use of taller lash caps on the valve stems to maintain proper valve lash. This is a fairly involved process, which is a big reason why you’ll see many street cams for overhead cam engines with various duration figures but the same lift number.

Information, Please
Your sales rep or cam maker will need to know the following parameters to help you get the right cam grind for your particular vehicle and engine combination:

Vehicle Weight: You can run a bigger cam in a lightweight vehicle because less low-end torque is necessary to get it moving. Heavy vehicles need cams that emphasize low-end power.
Rear Axle Gear Ratio and Tire Size: If you have a bigger (numerically higher) gear ratio, you can use a bigger cam. Lower “economy” gears work better with a mild cam that makes power at low rpm. Tire height is important because it helps determine the final drive ratio.
Transmission Type: Cams for automatics have to work over a broader rpm range. Manual transmissions can tolerate a bigger cam biased to making peak power. The cam’s powerband should match torque converter stall speed or clutch “dump” rpm.
Engine Size and Compression: A cam’s profile is affected by displacement. Most cam descriptions for small block Chevys, for example, are based on 350 cubic inch engines. Put a cam in a 383 stroker and it will act like a milder grind. The more duration a cam has, the more compression is needed to maintain proper cylinder pressure at low rpm.
Airflow: Your cam needs to work within the airflow capabilities of the engine. The airflow characteristics of the cylinder heads (amount, intake/exhaust ratios, port work, etc.), induction system, and exhaust system are all factors.
Power Adders: Superchargers, turbos, and nitrous require special cam profiles to take advantage of the extra power potential. In general, cams made for use with power adders are ground with wider lobe separation to take advantage of the extra cylinder pressure.
Rocker Arm Ratio: Going to a larger rocker arm ratio increases valve lift on overhead valve engines. The cam should be tailored to work with your specific ratio to avoid slapping valves into pistons or trashing valve springs.

Cam Comparison: 5.0L Mustang
Let’s compare two popular hydraulic roller cams for a 5.0L Fox-body Mustang that specs out as follows:
•3,400 pound vehicle weight, 5-speed, 3.73 rear axle gear
•306 cubic inch small block, 9.5:1 compression with EFI, aluminum heads, shorty headers, and cat-back exhaust

Cam One: Ford Racing X303
(Part Number FMS-M6250X303)
Advertised Duration: 286 degrees intake/exhaust
Duration at .050: 224 degrees intake/exhaust
Valve Lift (with 1.6 rocker): .542 inches intake/exhaust
Lobe Separation: 110 degrees
Powerband: 2,500-6,200 rpm

Cam Two: Comp Cams Xtreme Energy OE Roller 35-514-8
(Part Number CCA-355148)
Advertised Duration: 266 degrees intake, 274 degrees exhaust
Duration at .050: 216 degrees intake/224 degrees exhaust
Valve Lift (with 1.6 rocker): .545 inches intake/.555 inches exhaust
Lobe Separation: 112 degrees
Powerband: 1,600-5,600 rpm

If you look at just advertised duration, the Comp grind looks less aggressive than the Ford Racing cam. But when you check duration at .050, both cams are virtually the same. This is an example of why duration at .050 is a much better comparison method.
Where our cams diverge is in lift and lobe separation. The Comp Xtreme Energy grind offers far more lift and a relatively wide 112 degree lobe separation, so it makes good power across the rpm band. The extra lift and duration on the exhaust side helps improve the small block Ford’s poor exhaust breathing. Comp recommends the cam for cars with 3.27-3.73 gears, Mass Air systems, and mild modifications like a larger throttle body, headers, and free-flowing exhaust. Either a five-speed or an AOD automatic with a mild stall converter would work with this cam.
The Ford Racing X303 has slightly lower lift figures, but is ground with a narrower 110 degree lobe separation. That makes the cam more biased toward high rpm power production. In fact, peak horsepower rpm comes at a rather lofty 6,500 rpm, almost 1,000 rpm higher than the Xtreme Energy cam. Ford Racing says the X303 should be used with a five-speed manual transmission.
We hope this little primer gave you the knowledge you need to choose the right cam for your street ride. If you want to get a PhD in camshaft-ology, companies like Crane, Comp Cams, and Iskenderian have loads of information on their websites to help you become Dr. Bumpstick. Happy cam shopping!

http://www.chevytalk.com/tech/101/Cam_Theory.html



Misunderstood Ideas
Overlap and Compression- A very common idea, although for the most part incorrect, is that overlap bleeds off compression. Overlap, by itself, does not bleed off compression. Overlap is the angle between the exhaust closing and intake opening and is used to tune the exhaust's ability draw in additional intake charge as well as tuning idle vacuum and controlling power band width. Cylinder pressure is generated during the compression cycle, after the intake valve has closed and before the exhaust opens. Within practical limits, an early intake closing and late exhaust opening will maintain the highest cylinder pressure. By narrowing the Lobe Seperation Angle 'LSA' for a given lobe duration, the overlap increases, but the cylinder pressure can be increased as well. Thus cylinder pressure/compression can actually increase in this scenario, by the earlier intake closing and later exhaust opening. By increasing duration for a given LSA, the overlap will increase, the intake closing will be delayed, and the exhaust opening will occur earlier. This will decrease cylinder pressure, but the decrease/bleed-off of compression is not due to the overlap, it is due to the intake closing and exhaust opening events.

Adjusting Lash on Mechanical/Solid Cams- If valve lash changes significantly over time, then something is wrong. Cam wear is very slight, along the order of .002 or less. If the lash setting changes more than .005 then there has been a component failure (loosened hardware or actual mechanical failure). Lash settings should be taken/adjusted at the same temperature and same order as the previous or original setting. This is the only way to rule out expansion/contraction of the components from temperature changes. This temperature delta is usually the culprit of most valve lash dilemmas. At initial start-up and break-in of a new set-up: cam, lifters, rockers, pushrods, valve job, etc., the lash may move around during the break-in procedure and for a short time after. This is because all the parts are seating into their new wear patterns. Once this occurs, the lash setting should stay steady.

Hydraulic Lifter PreLoad- Hydraulic lifters are intended to make up for valvetrain dimensional differences as well as providing a self-adjusting method of maintaining valve lash, or rather the lack of. By setting the valvetrain so the lifter plunger is depressed slightly, the lifter is able to compensate for these differences, making a convenient hassle-free valvetrain set-up. For performance applications, lifter preload is not needed or wanted. As rpm's increase, the lifter has a tendency to bounce over the back of the lobe as it comes back down from the maximum lift point. The pressurized oil fills the lifter body to account for this bouncing. Eventually, after several engine revolutions, the oil can completely fill the lifter body and the plunger will be pushed up to its full travel (pump-up). Higher oil pressures can amplify this problem. With the lifter pre-loaded, this can cause a valve to run off it's seat and can cause piston clearance issues if and when pump-up occurs. By setting the valvetrain at 'zero' preload, lifter pump up is eliminated and in most cases, the cam will rev higher. Ford tech articles in late 60's actually urged 'stock' class racers to run .001-.003 lash on hydraulic cams.

Piston To Valve Clearance- Piston clearance is a function of lobe geometry and phasing to the piston. Cam lift should not be a deciding a factor in clearance issues. Valves will hit the piston in the overlap period, while exhaust is closing and intake is opening. Exhaust clearance problems will typically occur just before TDC and intake just after TDC, not at max lift. Some cylinder head venders and other component manufacturers advertise a max duration or lift before clearance issues arise. This is very misleading. Maximum safe duration is a totally bogus value, and is completely worthless without knowing anything about the ramp rates or actual timing/phasing events of the installation. At least with maximum safe lift, the vendor can a apply a rediculously fast ramp at a very early opening/closing and arrive at a somewhat meaningful measurement, but without knowing the design specifics the information is still next to useless.

Custom Ground Camshafts- When the performance of a particular engine combination is wanted to be optimized, the camshaft design parameters are calculated from the engine and vehicle specifications to perform within specific conditions. Let me emphasize that last statement, 'within specific conditions!'. In no way was total maximum power for the engine implied. The intent is to maximize performance within the intended design parameters. If that means taking a pro-stock motor and wanting to run it from 2000-5000 rpm, then so be it.

The camshaft's seat timing events, ramp rate, and lift are directly related to the intake and exhaust flow capabilities, crankshaft geometry, static compression, rpm range, as well as other criteria. A camshaft selected in this manner, becomes personalized to that particular engine combination. Usually a custom grind is selected as an intake lobe and exhaust lobe with a particular phasing to each other (lobe separation angle, LSA) and sometimes a specified amount of advance or retard is built in. Although, it could easily end up having completely reengineered lobe characteristics, requiring new lobe masters with specialized ramp requirements. It is possible for an off-the-shelf camshaft to be a classified as a 'custom'. If the cam design is calculated for a particular combination and an off-the-shelf part number fits the bill, then for all practical purposes that part number is a 'custom' cam (but only for that particular set-up).

Typically, cam catalogs do not specifically list custom ground camshafts, because the possibilities are endless. They stick to particular series or families of camshafts. The superstock grinds come closest to an off-the-shelf grind that is truly optimized for a combination. There will be small differences due to header sizes and engine builder's 'secrets, but usually the catalogs are pretty close to a good baseline. Likewise, brand to brand, the grinds will be very similar because of the 'class' dictated combinations and the flow characteristics being so well documented

Degreeing Camshafts- There is no special magic involved for degreeing a camshaft during installation, but this is not the same thing as random advancing, retarding, or installing the gears 'lined up'. Degreeing a camshaft involves definite known values for valve events. Typically this is specified as an Intake Centerline or as opening/closing events at specific lobe lifts. This is done to insure the cam is installed per specific requirements, such as a recommendation from an engine builder or the vendor's data sheet for that camshaft grind. Manufacturing tolerances and shop practices do not guarantee that the cam matches the data sheet, when installed at crank gear 'zero'. The cam will usually need to be advanced or retarded to the correct location. If it is correct, at crank gear 'zero', then the cam has still been degreed. It just did not require any additional tweaking to meet the requirements. This is what degreeing a cam is all about; the verification of the installation. A common mis-used term is the 'straight-up' installation. Typically this is described as installing the cam at crank gear 'zero'. This is 100% wrong. Straight-up refers to the Intake and Exhaust Centerlines being the same. In other words the cam will have no advance or retard at the installation, regardless of the amount of advance/retard ground in by the vendor. In reality, the cam may have to be advanced or retarded (from crank gear 'zero') significantly to arrive at a straight-up installation.

Exhaust System Diameter and Engine Horsepower- A popular idea is to select/size the exhaust system components to the engine's horsepower output. This idea typically attributes a header diameter or an exhaust system diameter to a particular horsepower level. To resolve this, look at how an engine operates and consider one cylinder. The cylinder will move a volume of air based on its crankshaft geometry, rpm, and sealing capability. The amount of air that can enter the cylinder is dependant on the intake flow capability, crank geometry, rpm, and valve timing as a minimum consideration. Likewise, the amount of air that exits the cylinder is dependent on the same characteristics.

An engine's output is usually thought of in terms of horsepower. Actually, an engine produces torque, and the horsepower is calculated through a units conversion. The amount of torque an engine can produce is directly related to the amount of cylinder pressure generated. This is all affected by the same previous characteristics (intake and exhaust capability, crank geometry, rpm, valvetiming, etc). So basically an engine's power output is about air exchange capability. Using this line of thinking, look at the exhaust path again. The exhaust system is more reflective of the engine's ability to move air, as opposed to horsepower numbers. Engine output does not address the breathing aspects of the engine and is probably not a good rule to use for exhaust sizing.

There is a very good reason that tuners/engineers/speciali st have attempted to assign exhaust to intake relationships around 70-80% for a typical natural aspirated set-up. In non-detailed terms, it is a range that offers a good balance for power capability. Other relationships, such as 1:1, are used and they work very well, but these methods have to be applied and tuned for very specific circumstances. This relationship does not stop on the flow bench, it goes all the way from the intake path opening to the exhaust system termination. In short, try to maintain exhaust sizes that are inline with the intake capability. Also, do not stop your analysis at the intake and exhaust paths. If the engine already has the camshaft, look at the valve events. If the specs favor a restricted exhaust (indicated by early and wider exhaust openings with wider lobe separation angles), then size it accordingly by using exhaust components with smaller cross-sections. If the valve timing specs favor the intake, then the engine needs some serious exhaust flow capability which is only possible with larger cross-sections.

This section was written with natural aspirated combinations in mind. However, by using the 'air exchange' rationale, it becomes apparent why forced induction engines typically benefit from increased exhaust flow capability. Also, look at the nitrous combinations. The intake system remains virtually unchanged, yet with the major increases in cylinder pressure it acts like a substantially larger engine on the exhaust side, requiring earlier exhaust openings and/or higher exhaust flow capability.

Pushrod Length- Incorrect pushrod length can be detrimental to valve guide wear. Most sources say that centering the rocker contact patch on the valve stem centerline at mid valve lift is the correct method for determining the optimum pushrod length. This method is wrong and can actually cause more harm than good. The method only applies when the valvetrain geometry is correct. This means that the rocker arm lengths and stud placement and valve tip heights are all perfect. This is rarely the case. To illustrate this, think of the valve angle and the rocker stud angle. They are usually not the same. If a longer or shorter valve is installed, then the relationship of the valve tip to the rocker stud centerline has changed. Heads that have had multiple valve jobs can also see this relationship change. Note, the rocker length (pivot to tip) remains unchanged, so the rocker contact patch will have to move off the valve centerline some particular distance for optimum geometry to be maintained.

The optimum length, for component longevity, is the length that will give the least rocker arm contact area on the valve stem. In other words the narrowest wear pattern. This assures that the relationship is optimized and the rocker is positioned at the correct angle. This means that the optimum rocker tip contact point does not necessarily coincide with the valve stem centerline, and probably will not. What is the acceptable limit for being offset from the valve stem centerline? That will depend on the set-up. A safe margin to strive for is about +/-.080" of the centerline of an 11/32 diameter valve stem. This means that no part of the wear pattern should be outside of this .160" wide envelope. As the pushrod length is changed, the pattern will change noticeably. As the geometry becomes closer to optimum, the pattern will get narrowest. If the narrowest pattern is too far from the valvestem centerline, then the valve to rocker relationship has to be changed. In this case, valve stem length will need to change.

What is meant by basic RPM?
The camshaftís basic RPM is the RPM range within which the engine will produce its best power. The width of this power band is approximately 3000 to 3500 RPM with standard lifter cams, and 3500 to 4000 RPM with roller lifter cams. It is important that you select the camshaft with the ìBasic RPM Rangeî best suited to your application, vehicle gearing and tire diameter.

Camshaft duration and why is it important?

Duration is the period of time, measured in degrees of crankshaft rotation, that a valve is open. Duration (at .050Ă® lifter rise) is the deciding factor to what the engineĂ­s basic RPM range will be. Lower duration cams produce the power in the lower RPM range. Larger duration cams operate at higher RPM, but you will lose bottom end power to gain top end power as the duration is increased. (For each ten degree change in the duration at .050Ă®, the power band moves up or down in RPM range by approximately 500 RPMĂ­s.)

Advertised duration and duration at .050Ă® lifter rise (Tappet Lift)?

In order for duration to have any merit as a measurement for comparing camshaft size, the method for determining the duration must be the same. There are two key components for measuring durationĂł the degrees of crankshaft rotation and at what point of lifter rise the measurements were taken. Advertised durations are not taken at any consistent point of lifter rise, so these numbers can vary greatly. For this reason, advertised duration figures are not good for comparing cams. Duration values expressed at .050Ă® lifter rise state the exact point the measurement was taken. These are the only duration figures that are consistent and can accurately be used to compare camshafts.

How does valve lift affect the operation of an engine?

Lift is the distance the valve actually travels. It is created by the cam lobe lift, which is then increased by the rocker arm ratio. The amount of lift you have and the speed at which the valve moves is a key factor in determining the torque the engine will produce.

Camshaft lobe separation and how does it affect the engine?

Lobe separation is the distance (in camshaft degrees) that the intake and exhaust lobe centerlines (for a given cylinder) are spread apart. Lobe separation is a physical characteristic of the camshaft and cannot be changed without regrinding the lobes. This separation determines where peak torque will occur within the engineís power range. Tight lobe separations (such as 106°) cause the peak torque to build early in basic RPM range of the cam. The torque will be concentrated, build quickly and peak out. Broader lobe separations (such as 112°) allows the torque to be spread over a broader portion of the basic RPM range and shows better power through the upper RPM.

Intake and exhaust centerlines?

The centerline of either the intake or exhaust lobe is the theoretical maximum lift point of the lobe in relationship to Top Dead Center in degrees of crankshaft rotation. (They are shown at the bottom of the camshaft specification card as ìMAX LIFT.î) The centerlines of the intake and exhaust lobes can be moved by installing the camshaft in the engine to an advanced or a retarded position. Generally speaking, the average of the intake and exhaust lobe centerline figures is the camshaft lobe separation in camshaft degrees.

How does advancing or retarding the camshaftĂ­s position in the engine affect performance?

Advancing the cam will shift the basic RPM range downward. Four degrees of advance (from the original position) will cause the power range to start approximately 200 RPM sooner. Retarding it this same amount will move the power upward approximately 200 RPM. This can be helpful for tuning the power range to match your situation. If the correct cam has been selected for a particular application, installing it in the normal ìstraight upî position (per the opening and closing events at .050î lifter rise on the spec card) is the best starting point.

Why is it necessary to know the compression ratio of an engine in order to choose the correct cam?

The compression ratio of the engine is one of three key factors in determining the engineís cylinder pressure. The other two are the duration of the camshaft (at .050î lifter rise) and the position of the cam in the engine (advanced or retarded). The result of how these three factors interact with one another is the amount of cylinder pressure the engine will generate. (This is usually expressed as the ìcranking pressureî that can be measured with a gauge installed in the spark plug hole.)

It is important to be sure that the engineĂ­s compression ratio matches the recommended ratio for the cam you are selecting. Too little compression ratio (or too much duration) will cause the cylinder pressure to drop. This will lower the power output of the engine. With too much compression ratio (or too little duration) the cylinder pressure will be too high, causing pre-ignition and detonation. This condition could severely damage engine components. It is important to follow the guidelines for compression shown on the application pages of the catalog.

How does cylinder pressure relate to the octane rating of todayĂ­s unleaded fuel?

In very basic terms, the more cylinder pressure we make the more power the engine will produce. But look out for the fuel! TodayĂ­s pump gas is too volatile and cannot tolerate high compression ratio (above 10.5:1) and high cylinder pressure (above approximately 165 PSI) without risking detonation. Fuel octane boosters or expensive racing gasoline will be necessary if too much cylinder pressure is generated.

How does an increase in rocker arm ratio improve the engineĂ­s performance?

The lobe lift of the cam is increased by the ratio of the rocker arm to produce the final amount of valve lift. A cam with a .320î lobe lift using a 1.50:1 ratio rocker arm will have a .480î valve lift (.320î x 1.50 = .480î). If you install rocker arms with an increased ratio of 1.60:1, with the same cam, the lift would increase to .512î (.320î x 1.60 = .512î). The engine reacts to the movement of the valve. It doesnít know how the increased lift was generated. It responds the same way it would as if a slightly larger lift cam had been installed. In fact, since the speed of the valve is increased with the higher rocker arm ratio, the engine thinks it has also gained 2° to 4° of camshaft duration.

The end result is an easy and quick way to improve the performance of the existing cam without having to install a new one.
Remember, whenever you increase the valve lift, with either a bigger cam or larger rocker arm ratio, you must check for valve spring coil bind and for other mechanical interference. Please review the previous sections concerning these matters

Must new (Standard Design) lifters always be installed on a new camshaft?

YES! All new standard hydraulic and mechanical camshafts must have new lifters installed. The face of these lifters have a slight crown, and the mating lobe surface they ride on has been ground with a slight taper. The purpose of this is to create a ìspinningî of the lifter as it rides on the lobe. This is necessary to prevent premature wear of the lifter and lobe. Therefore, these parts will be mated to one another during the initial break-in period. Used lifters will not mate properly, causing the lobe to fail.

If you are rebuilding an engine and plan to re-use the existing cam and lifters (in the same block) it can be done, as long as the lifter goes back on the same lobe it is mated to. If the lifters get mixed up, they cannot be used, and a new set will be required. The new lifters would also have to go through the break-in procedure to mate to the old cam.

Can used roller lifters be installed on a new camshaft?

YES. ìRollerî lifters are the only ones that can be re-used. This design lifter has a wheel (supported by needle bearings) attached to the bottom of it. The lobe the roller lifter rides on does not have any taper. This is a very low friction design and does not require the lifter to mate to the cam. As long as the wheel shows no wear, and the needle bearings are in good condition, the ìhydraulic rollerî or ìmechanical rollerî lifter can be re-used.

What engine oil and lubricants should I use?

Crane Cams does not recommend the use of synthetic oils during the initial break-in period for a new camshaft. Use a good quality grade of naturally formulated motor oil during this period. If you choose to use synthetic oil after the engine has been broken in, change the oil filter and follow the oil manufacturerĂ­s instructions.

When using either regular oil or synthetic it is important to pick the weight oil that best matches your engine bearing clearances, the engineĂ­s operating temperature, and the climate the vehicle will be operating in. Use the oil manufacturerĂ­s recommendation to satisfy these conditions. Crane Cams offers several lubricants to aid during the critical break-in procedure, and to prolong the engineĂ­s life.

Should I use ìOil Restrictorsî in my engine?

No, Crane Cams does not recommend the use of oil restrictors. The oil is the life blood of the engine, not only lubricating but cooling the engine components as well. For example, a valve spring builds in temperature as it compresses and relaxes. This increase of temperature affects the characteristics of the springĂ­s material, and if excessive, will shorten the life of the spring. Oil is the only means the spring has for cooling.

How do I prime the engineĂ­s oiling system?

It is critical that the engines oiling system be primed before starting the newly rebuilt engine for the first time. This must be done by turning the oil pump with a drill motor to supply oil throughout the engine. If this is done with the valve covers off, you will be able to see that the oil is being delivered to the top of the engine and to all the valve train components.
__________________




" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"

grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
10-10-07 06:19 PM - Post#1271625    

IF I had to sellect,(youll get a noticable (IDLE LOPE)

http://www.brodix.com/heads/ik.html

with these heads (sellect the 70cc version)and a EDELBROCK AIR GAP RPM intake, with a decent 750 vacuum secondary holley, and this cam,


http://www.crower.com/misc/cam_spec/cam_fin der.php...

with

3000-3200 rpm stall, 3.73:1-3.90:1 REAR GEARS youll have a good powerful combo, WHY DID I SELLECT THAT CAM?
its designed to be easy on the valve train,THATS IMPORTANT on a street car where youll put alot ove miles on that hydrolic roller cam, it matches your cpr and will make excellent tq thru-out the rpm range those listed mods will put your engine,.... but ID STRONGLY ADVISE YOU CONTACT 5-7 CAM COMPANYS, MINIMUM... AND ASK FOR ADVISE BEFORE BUYING A CAM
" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"

mnblaster
Member
Posts 36
10-10-07 07:55 PM - Post#1271696    

GV, how does this cam that you recommended compare to the one you said you would use if you did it all over again?
grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
10-12-07 05:16 PM - Post#1272852    

your trying to compare apples too oranges, my cam sellection NEEDED too be differant because , the goals as to the engine combos requirements differ, Ive never intended from day one too run my combo seriously without the 200-250 hp nitrous system(depends on the jets installed)
Ive never intended too maximize the N/A hp, but too sellect cams and heads, ETC, for that nitrous, and I value a nearly stock idle sound (I don,t have but wish I had)
I never intended to have nor do I want a race car, what I want is a daily driver combo in my C4 that will SURPRISE and HUMBLE a z06, eat his lunch, in a quick accelleration contest
" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"

StanC.
Senior Member
Posts 85
10-19-07 09:58 PM - Post#1277985    

The distance between the rod pin centerline and the main centerline is great. When the 400 cast crank was designed one thought for those large mains was to stiffen the crank by having the circles overlap slightly. If you really gotta roll the dice consider a forged core that passes magnaflux testing. If the counter weights hit the block it wouldn't be worth the cost to get outa the spot with mallory metal slugs after the counter weights were turned down.
'64 K-20 rock crawler, SB 409, ZZ4 roller, 4-wheel power disk brakes, power steering, cruz control.
'83 Impala War Wagon, SB 383, LT-1 roller,

Datsunz8
Newbie
Posts 20
10-25-07 07:39 PM - Post#1281954    

Grumpy,

Finished the 385 sbc and I learned a few things along the way. Beware of Comp Cams cast Hyd. roller cams.

When we tore into the motor we found the lobes on the roller cam to be shot, severe pitting and partial lobe wiping...cheap junk I guess!

I only had maybe 10k miles on her. Stabbed a Crtane 119651 with 1.60 roller rockers in her. Just finished the base tune on her today and I really like the set up/motor.

I am keeping the total timing at 32 degree's with an 11 to 1 compression ratio and 93 octane I am playing it safe.

Thanks for your help/idea's!
grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
10-26-07 06:05 AM - Post#1282133    

yeah! BUT how are you/whats your driving impressions with the new set-up???????
BTW I bet your impressed with the differance in QUALITY on the CRANE BILLET vs the old comp cams cast cam core, thats why Ive always suggested the billet roller cam cores
" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"

Datsunz8
Newbie
Posts 20
10-29-07 06:46 AM - Post#1284040    

Grumpy,

I got a chance to drive the hell out the car over the last week. Probably 500-700 miles and even a trip to the track.

It makes no vacuum like my other cam which is no biggie as I run a vacuum pump for the brakes etc.. The drivability was ok, not great but I have some tuning issues to work out still.

I ran it at the track yesterday, got 4 passes in and obviously the motor is a little tight still and I short shifted a few times. It ran 11.02, 11.03, 11.14 and 11.30 at 119 to 121 mph. Thats a little slower than my old set up but in all fairness I will need to give it some more seat time to loosen up and I will run it harder next time out.

I left the bottle off as I didn't want to be too hard on her this early and I don't need to get tech'd off the track.
leons57belair
Forum Newbie
Posts 78
01-02-08 10:15 PM - Post#1333475    

I'm new to Chevy and I see that most people build 383's with the 3.75 crank. My question is, is it possible to install a 3.875 crank in a 350 block or do you need one of the aftermarket blocks with the taller decks? And if it is possible, A: Why don't more people use this crank? and B: Is there anything more needed to set up this crank over the 3.75 one?
Thanks,
Leon
Black 57 Chevy Belair 2 door Sport Coupe. 350 engine, edelbrock performer rpm intake, 600 cfm edelbrock carb, K&N filter. Th350 trans.

grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
01-03-08 07:07 AM - Post#1333606    

theres no problem building a 396 SHORT BLOCK vs the 383 by installing the slightly longer stroke crank, EXCEPT that the clearancing work,requires careful grinding as its possiable to get into the water jackets on some blocks if you get careless, the choice of connecting rods, oil pan, and cam too rod clearance takes more time and thought due to the tighter clearances and longer stroke and requirement to grind the block slightly more and the cam to rod clearance is where many guys get into problems
the 383 is more popular mostly because its slightly easier to build, takes less planing and THE COMPONENTS are GENERALLY CHEAPER AND EASIER TO FIND.
you will have a slight advantage with the larger displacement when your done, but youll find after shopping those few extra cubic inches raise the component prices a good deal and that if your useing 6" connecting rods that the piston pin in the oil ring is a P.I.T.A. compared to 5.7" or 5.875" rods
you might find these of interest

http://www.chevytalk.org/threads/showflat.php?Cat=...

http://airflowresearch.com/articles/article085/A -P...

http://airflowresearch.com/articles/article031/A -P...

http://airflowresearch.com/articles/article016/A 16...

http://airflowresearch.com/articles/article014/A 14...

" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"

leons57belair
Forum Newbie
Posts 78
01-03-08 10:36 PM - Post#1334408    

Thanks Grumpy, that was some great info.
Black 57 Chevy Belair 2 door Sport Coupe. 350 engine, edelbrock performer rpm intake, 600 cfm edelbrock carb, K&N filter. Th350 trans.

grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
01-06-08 06:12 PM - Post#1336640    

I was asked "whats your current engine, combo,"

BTW this info and software a good tool, but understand theres not a single original chevy part in my engine and Im constantly changing components (part of the HOBBY/RESEARCH)and that just because this combo fits my needs doesn,t mean its going to be ideal in your car!
THE combo I choose was NOT designed to maximize N/A hp, but too maximize BOTH the driveability when I was off the giggle gas and to get a reasonable boost once the nitrous was used, with durrability and trouble free opperation as a main concern.

http://www.auto-ware.com/software/eap/eap.htm

Ive got that software ,at first, its a P.I.T.A. to fill in all the necessary requested data "CORRECTLY" and fill the necessary data banks the basic program needs , but the more you use it the easier it becomes to use as it holds previous data in memory,but its an excellent program that gives good advice and reasonably dependable answers, unlike some of the cheaper
software.
that and YEARS OF experiance and testing assist in finding a decent combo
keep in mind the rpm band your car REALLY spends MOST of its time in, most guys seem mezmerized and glued to the peak power results, it does little or no good to make huge peak power numbers at an rpm that youll spend only fractions of seconds at durring occasional race use vs the rpm band where your car spends 99% of its time, I could easily have built a killer race combo with huge peah hp numbers but I wanted something that was reasonably easy to drive on the street and still be fast on the track on the rare occasions I get there. I drive My corvette and its NOT a trailer queen!

my comb changes almost every month as I play with it, but heres My current 383 combo, (which Im currently refreshing for a spare)I built the engine SPECIFICALLY to run nitrious , but still be marginally easy to drive on the street, Its certainly NOT a race car but its fast enought to be marginally scary at times

splayed 4 bolt block,4.030 bore ARP studs
.020 copper head gaskets
6" cat 7/16" rod bolt (H) connecting rods
FORGED PISTONS 2016 alloy
SCAT 3.75" stroke FORGED internally ballanced ,4340 crank
CRANE 119661 roller cam & kit (better springs added)
air pump eliminator
jackson gear cam drive
smaller crank pullie
BBK 58mm throttle body
ERSON 1.6:1 BILLET roller rockers
gapless rings
TRICKFLOW twisted wedge heads (ported extensively)
STEALTH RAM(dirrect strait shot from back of valve to plenum) (ported and modified extensively)plus adjustable fuel pressure regulator
SFI 168 tooth flex plate
10 qt custom oil pan/high volume oil pump
windage screen/crank scraper /oil cooler
3000 rpm stall converter
36 LB injectors (soon to be 42 lb)
hooker 1 3/4" headers, 3" exhaust
HOLLEY http://www.holley.com/890-160.asp
taylor 10.4 mm wires
MDS ignition with manual retard dial
3.73:1 rear gears
aftermaket EFI fuel pump
larger fuel lines
trans cooler with powered fan
1.5"deeper aluminum trans pan
175 hp wet nitrous kit (EXTENSIVELY MODIFYED and re-jetted) similar to this




Im currently collecting parts to upgrade to a BBC in the vette, after running various combos/ components and testing over a dozen cams and almost that many intakes based on this basic 383 design
several 700r4 transmission, a couple rear suspension,
and more replaced U-joints , tires and brakes ETC. than you would believe
(being retired hurts the spare cash budget flow rates)


WHAT WOULD I CHANGE IF I WAS STICKING WITH THE SBC 383?

keep in mind the current BASIC combos 12 years old and theres been a bunch of better parts come on line...It was a great combo at the time but it can be improved on now...

Id swap to the 66cc AFR 210cc heads,with L98 angle plugs and ID BUILD/WELD up a CUSTOM EFI intake , similar to the STEALTHRAM,
BUT,BASED on the
http://www.holley.com/300-44.asp



ID swap to this cam, and a 3500 rpm stall converter and a set of 42 lb injectors

http://www.cranecams.com/?show=browseParts& ;act...

http://www.adperformance.com/index.php?main_page=p...

this would probably boost my hp 50-70 hp and raise both ends the useful rpm band about 600rpm, but make it even LESS street friendly to drive, and require a differant set of valve springs

but Im currently collecting parts to upgrade to a BBC in the vette, after running various combos/ components and testing over a dozen cams and almost that many intakes based on this basic 383 design
several 700r4 transmission, a couple rear suspension,
and more replaced U-joints , tires and brakes ETC. than you would believe
(being retired hurts the spare cash budget flow rates)
" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"

grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
01-06-08 07:04 PM - Post#1336687    

If your afraid to experiment, or too modify parts or try new things..... YOUR PROBABLY in the wrong HOBBY, you need too research your choices and ideas carefully, see if someone else tried it first and see what results they got,but do the research, theres lots of guys who could not melt ice without instuctions and they could still screw it up with a video guide, do the research, or youll find yourself in a never ending and bottomless money pit with little hope of building a killer combo at a near reasonable cost.
you DON,T NEED the absolute fastest car, what you need is a very dependable car thats far faster than most.
its no huge trick to exceed 450hp/450 ft lbs with a properly thought thru and assembled 383, and 500hp PLUS and 500ft lbs PLUS is certainly achievable WITHOUT & before you use nitrous
" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"

stroked83
Contributor
Posts 240
05-13-08 06:56 PM - Post#1432388    

I'm in the process of a 383 stroker.
have gain alot of information on this and for the range of rpm and power this is the best small block, and bang for the buck

i have the 400 trans from T.C.I.
9inch with 3.90 gears running a 28 inch tire

any idea on rpm at 60?
dont have a tach

how do u guys get the power to stick to the street
ladder bars, traction bars, pinoin snubber.

pics would help
83 silverado c-10 short bed
383ci lunati cam, dart heads, 750 demon, cal-tracs bars
8.2902 @ 83.15mph 1/8 mile 3950lbs

grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
05-14-08 10:39 AM - Post#1432766    

http://users.erols.com/srweiss/calcmph.htm

youll be turning about 2900 rpm at 60 mph with 28" tires and a 3.90:1 rear gear

as to traction, that depends on the tires and suspension your working with, naturally a leaf spring like an early camaro or nova is going to be differant that a chevelle with a coil spring rear
" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"

stroked83
Contributor
Posts 240
05-14-08 08:26 PM - Post#1433181    

i have a 9inch. leaf spring. on an 83 shortbed silverado, coils in the front another words stock suspension
83 silverado c-10 short bed
383ci lunati cam, dart heads, 750 demon, cal-tracs bars
8.2902 @ 83.15mph 1/8 mile 3950lbs

grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
05-15-08 06:14 AM - Post#1433382    

for LEAF SPRING REAR SUSPENSIONS a combo of adjustable air shocks and CALTRAC bars generally works, especially if EACH rear shock air pressure is individually adjustable
BTW Id suggest installing a firmly bolted down battery box and moving the battery to the far rear to help weight transfer and removing as much weight from the truck as possiable, glass hood, ETC.

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autof...

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autof...

http://www.hotrodsandhemis.com/Traction.html

http://www.novaresource.org/caltracs.htm

http://www.calvertracing.com/caltracs.html

http://www.4secondsflat.com/CalTracs.html

keep in mind you want to adjust the tire pressure also so you get equally dark black and full tire width tire rubber marks on the pavement,on both sides of the car when testing and you want your driving style to lauch the car so the tires spin a bit faster than the pavement passing under them and your getting very minimal or zero bog on the launch, once you get it correct lifting the front suspension noticably on the launch should become obvious to observers, durring the first 60-80 feet or more and 60 ft times will drop rapidly with practice
" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"

stroked83
Contributor
Posts 240
05-15-08 07:45 PM - Post#1433920    

thank you for the help.

has anyone tried a ladder bar on w/ these applications.

pinions snubber. Where could i get one.

just wanting to plant 450 horse...i know there will always be some tire spin and wheel hop

thanks again
83 silverado c-10 short bed
383ci lunati cam, dart heads, 750 demon, cal-tracs bars
8.2902 @ 83.15mph 1/8 mile 3950lbs

Jim.Biron
"7th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts 2483
Jim.Biron
05-16-08 05:14 AM - Post#1434094    

Wow... some great info in here. Now I'd like an opinion.
I'm not entirely happy with the "sound" of my 383. It just doesn't sound lumpy enough so I'm considering a cam change and going to a roller (I'm thinking a 'Thumper series')
Below are the specs of the engine with the exception of an edelbrock 2x4 (2 - 500 cfm carbs) on an air gap manifold (for show).The car is a 66 Belair with a M-20 4 speed and 3.73 rear gear and a 28" tire.

I'd like to get some opinion as to what roller I should go to (or should I). I know its more of a personal thing but all opinions are welcome.


383 SBC
• 440 hp @ 5800 RPM 448 ft. lbs torque 5100 RPM
• All new internals proffesionally
• Prepared block
Machine Work
• Select Hi Tin block 4 bolt main machined 030 040 060 -
• align bore and or check for run out.full race clearancing
• Mag Check-preasure check ...
• Hot Tank - Jet Wash ....
• Bore Torque Plate Hone ... Torque Plate Gives True Finish
• Clearance block - -casting flash only..
• shotpeen rods...
• Dynamic balance assembly..
• File fit rings - blue print clearance...
• press - pistons to rods...
• Install cam bearings - freeze plugs...
• Port blue print cylinder heads...

All new Performance Internal Parts
• Speed pro hyperutectic pistons 10.3 to 1 piston set[ PUMP GAS OK 91 OCTANE
• EAGLE STEEL crank with superior wear sized and indexed.
• Childs & Albert - zz gapdura Moly File Fit Rings... [provides the ultimate in ring sealing making more power!!
• Durabond - cam bearings...
• gm pink forged steel rods
• ARP - wavelock - rod bolts...
• Clevite- -bearings tri metal 77 - rod and main...
• comp cams custom hi output cam lifter set ..
• Cloyes - true roller set...
• Comp - cams cam locks...
• comp cams xe chrome moly pushrods
• Dyna gear race - oil pump...
• Dyna gear - pickup...
• ARP - steel drive...
• After market - oil pan. baffeld 5 qt
• After market - timing cover...
• pioneer/arp - head bolts...
• ARP/ - rocker studs 3/8...
• Fel Pro blue - gasket sets...
- Power Making Featured Parts
• ALL NEW EDITION EDELBROCK HEADS WITH REVISED COMBUSTION CHAMBERS CNC PORTS POWER MAKING FEATURES!!. Bowls blended,full ...
o Features - - -severe duty 2.02/1.60 valves plus ... 1.25 springs 7 degree super locks comp cam parts..good porting..3/8studs guide plates.gasket match p.c seals.chrome moly retainers[with mild port work these heads are better than ANY OUT BOX HEADS YOU COULD PUT ON FROM SAME MANUFACTURE
• hi perfromance roller rockers-1.6 ratio...
BTW- I'm willing to change out the 1.6 rockers.
• comp cams custom series- -muscle car cam Features - 110 center line 488 - 490 lift corrected 1.6 ratio = 520/522 lift. 226/228 dur @ 050 , 2000 stall needed.


Jim
www.HudsonValleyCruise.com

Greggy
Senior Member
Posts 541
Greggy
05-16-08 06:06 AM - Post#1434126    

Sorry, but a cam with 226/228 duration at 0.050" is not going to sound 'lumpy' in a 383. However with good induction, heads and exhaust it will still make serious streetable HP.

I run a Comp XE274 cam which has 230/236 duration at 0.050 in my 383 and if the carb is tuned right it only has a slight lope at idle.

If you want the 'race car' idle sound consider a cam in the 238/244 duration at 0.050 range.

Greggy - 1963 Impala 383 PG
Jim.Biron
"7th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts 2483
Jim.Biron
05-16-08 06:40 AM - Post#1434140    

Right, It just doesn't sound 'lumpy' enough.
What do you know about the Comp Cams 'Thumper' Cams. Do you like any of those?
Jim
www.HudsonValleyCruise.com

grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
05-16-08 07:24 AM - Post#1434178    

if you want a cam that costs less than a roller cam, that BOTH sounds (LUMPY) and produces good HP and TQ Ive used this cam below in many builds similar to yours, many times and its always been a good choice, especially with 1.6:1 ratio rockers
keep in mind in most applications,a solid flat tappet cam easily adds 500rpm-1000rpm to the power range over a similar hydrolic cam.
using a hyrolic flat tappet in a performance 383 application is restricting your potential

http://www.cranecams.com/?show=browseParts& ;act...
" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"

kevindtimm
Frequent Contributor
Posts 1945
kevindtimm
05-27-08 12:41 PM - Post#1442279    

I see 383 kits for 5.565" and 5.7" rods. What is the difference in these kits? I assume that there's something different in the pistons, but I haven't been able to ascertain what's up.

And now to the simpleton question: If I get a 400 crank and a 350 block, what can I reuse (pistons, rods, etc), what do I machine (crank, mains, yes I realize that the block has to be clearanced, I saw that in an earlier post)?

I also realize that the valvetrain must be replaced (cam, pushrods, valve springs) but if I want to stay with the stock heads for the time being, is that OK? I don't have a block picked out yet, I'm just in the discovery phase.

TIA, KT
2008 Equinox LS - My only Chevy right now

grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
05-27-08 12:51 PM - Post#1442284    

  • kevindtimm Said:
I see 383 kits for 5.565" and 5.7" rods. What is the difference in these kits?
in most cases the shorter 5.565 rods are stock, possiably reworked 400 chevy rods used to allow 350 pistons to keep the cost down

I assume that there's something different in the pistons, but I haven't been able to ascertain what's up.

shorter rods are necessary to run 350 pistons in a stroker based on the longer stroke 400 crank with its 3.75" stroke vs the 350s 3.48" stroke


And now to the simpleton question: If I get a 400 crank and a 350 block, what can I reuse (pistons, rods, etc), what do I machine (crank, mains, yes I realize that the block has to be clearanced, I saw that in an earlier post)?

a 400 crank assembly has larger main bearing dia. and will require those be reduced its also externally ballanced so a new ballancer and flywheel or flex plates normally used and everthing needs to be clearanced and ballanced, there are internally ballanced 383 kits available that allow you to re-use your damper and flex plate, but its a good idea to ballance the assembly anyways

I also realize that the valvetrain must be replaced (cam, pushrods, valve springs)
in most cases youll need to check clearances carefully, and a new small base cam must be used in a few combos for rod top cam clearances, but in many cases the standard cams can be used

but if I want to stay with the stock heads for the time being, is that OK? I don't have a block picked out yet, I'm just in the discovery phase.
you can use the stock heads but youll be at a disaddvantage as most stock heads are flow restricted compared to the aftermarket heads available

TIA, KT



your almost always way ahead to buy a complete ballanced rotating assembly from a single manufacturer, that includes all the moving parts and bearings

http://www.scatcrankshafts.com/

http://www.ohiocrank.com/rotatepage1.html

http://www.adperformance.com/

http://www.lewisracingengines.com/
" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"

kevindtimm
Frequent Contributor
Posts 1945
kevindtimm
05-27-08 01:47 PM - Post#1442337    

Thanks for the info (and the fantastic speed of reply!)

I'm looking at the fact that I'll already have a complete running engine and a 400 crank. So, if I'm computing this correctly, I'll need an 'overhaul' kit (rings, bearings, etc.), the crank reground, the block clearanced, a new balancer and 5.565 rods to do the rotating assembly in the short block, correct?

If that is correct, which flywheel will I use? 350 or 400?

  • grumpyvette Said:
  • kevindtimm Said:
I see 383 kits for 5.565" and 5.7" rods. What is the difference in these kits?
in most cases the shorter 5.565 rods are stock, possiably reworked 400 chevy rods used to allow 350 pistons to keep the cost down

I assume that there's something different in the pistons, but I haven't been able to ascertain what's up.

shorter rods are necessary to run 350 pistons in a stroker based on the longer stroke 400 crank with its 3.75" stroke vs the 350s 3.48" stroke


And now to the simpleton question: If I get a 400 crank and a 350 block, what can I reuse (pistons, rods, etc), what do I machine (crank, mains, yes I realize that the block has to be clearanced, I saw that in an earlier post)?

a 400 crank assembly has larger main bearing dia. and will require those be reduced its also externally ballanced so a new ballancer and flywheel or flex plates normally used and everthing needs to be clearanced and ballanced, there are internally ballanced 383 kits available that allow you to re-use your damper and flex plate, but its a good idea to ballance the assembly anyways

I also realize that the valvetrain must be replaced (cam, pushrods, valve springs)
in most cases youll need to check clearances carefully, and a new small base cam must be used in a few combos for rod top cam clearances, but in many cases the standard cams can be used

but if I want to stay with the stock heads for the time being, is that OK? I don't have a block picked out yet, I'm just in the discovery phase.
you can use the stock heads but youll be at a disaddvantage as most stock heads are flow restricted compared to the aftermarket heads available

TIA, KT



your almost always way ahead to buy a complete ballanced rotating assembly from a single manufacturer, that includes all the moving parts and bearings

http://www.scatcrankshafts.com/

http://www.ohiocrank.com/rotatepage1.html

http://www.adperformance.com/

http://www.lewisracingengines.com/


2008 Equinox LS - My only Chevy right now

grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
05-27-08 01:54 PM - Post#1442342    

youll need the basic 350 overhaul kit, rings bearings , gaskets ETC,
PLUS the 400 crank main journal size cut to match the 350 size,block and bearings, the 400 flexplate or flywheel and damper, the 400s short rods and the 350 pistons that fit the blocks bore size, youll need the assembly clearanced and ballanced after that, OR you can use the longer 5.7" rods from the 350 with aftermarket pistons with the correct pin height,but youll still need the whole assembly clearanced and ballanced after that, the longer 350 style 5.7" rods and aftermarklet pistons are the prefered route

http://kb-silvolite.com/performance.php?action=sea...

http://kb-silvolite.com/calc.php?action=piston_com...

http://kb-silvolite.com/calc.php?action=comp
" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"

kevindtimm
Frequent Contributor
Posts 1945
kevindtimm
05-27-08 02:02 PM - Post#1442355    

So, just to run around in circles, another option is to cut the mains of the 400 crank to the 350 block, use 5.7" rods that fit the 400 crank and pistons for those 5.7" rods. And still do the:

1) Balancing (seems about $200)
2) Balancer (another $125)
3) 400 flywheel ($ unknown)
4) Block clearancing ($50 from the info on your earlier entry in this post)

I think I'm more confused now than before

  • grumpyvette Said:
youll need the basic 350 overhaul kit, rings bearings , gaskets ETC,
PLUS the 400 crank main journal size cut to match the 350 size,block and bearings, the 400 flexplate or flywheel and damper, the 400s short rods and the 350 pistons that fit the blocks bore size, youll need the assembly clearanced and ballanced after that


2008 Equinox LS - My only Chevy right now

grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
05-27-08 02:07 PM - Post#1442361    

you seem to have the basics..........but like I stated before your likely better off buying a complete ballanced , matched set of components from a single source rather than piecing together the combo, and having a crank cut and assembly ballanced.
SCAT SELLS 9000 series cast steel assemblys reasonably priced

http://www.scatcrankshafts.com/PDFs/Crank06.pdf
pg 33
" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"

kevindtimm
Frequent Contributor
Posts 1945
kevindtimm
05-27-08 07:36 PM - Post#1442588    

It's funny how I can get a part for cheap (the crank) and still not be able to get to a good place

Thanks for all your advice.

  • grumpyvette Said:
you seem to have the basics..........but like I stated before your likely better off buying a complete ballanced , matched set of components from a single source rather than piecing together the combo, and having a crank cut and assembly ballanced.
SCAT SELLS 9000 series cast steel assemblys reasonably priced

http://www.scatcrankshafts.com/PDFs/Crank06.pdf
pg 33


2008 Equinox LS - My only Chevy right now

89RStroker
Contributor
Posts 367
89RStroker
05-27-08 07:50 PM - Post#1442602    

How much abuse and power can the scat 9000 crank handle? Think a 7000 RPM motor would live?
6.0 LQ4, 242/248 @.050, .610/.615 lift, 110 LSA, Holley 750 Carb, Victor Jr intake, Stainless works headers, T56 6 speed trans, Moser 12 bolt 4.30 gears, manual steering and no AC.

Best to date, 7.1@97 MPH, 1.5 60 foot, stock junkyard 6.0 carb/cam

grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
05-27-08 07:55 PM - Post#1442609    

Id strongly suggest that a 3.75" stroke crank thats expected to spin 7000rpm Should be forged 4340 steel
" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"

89RStroker
Contributor
Posts 367
89RStroker
05-28-08 01:25 AM - Post#1442724    

So if i hit 6800 it might be ok?
6.0 LQ4, 242/248 @.050, .610/.615 lift, 110 LSA, Holley 750 Carb, Victor Jr intake, Stainless works headers, T56 6 speed trans, Moser 12 bolt 4.30 gears, manual steering and no AC.

Best to date, 7.1@97 MPH, 1.5 60 foot, stock junkyard 6.0 carb/cam

grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
05-28-08 10:58 AM - Post#1442999    

the quality of materials and heat treating of those parts along with the tollerances and care & inspection durring the machine work varies a great deal between manufacturers. a CALLIES,EAGLE,CROWER OR LUNATI CRANK is certainly not in the same class as a chinese knock off you get on ebay for 1/4 the price.
OLIVER,CALLIES,CROWER,LUN ATI RODS and ARP L19 rod bolts are not the same as the parts that you get off EBAY or most discount suppliers EITHER.
cast cranks should in my opinion be limited to about 4000 feet per minute in piston speed , so with your 3.75" stroke thats 6400 rpm MAX, for a cast crank and forged cranks at 4500 fpm , or 7200rpm for light weight forged components and that assumes good both rods/rod bolts and a ballanced rotating assembly, with very good quality components.(hopefully sellected both for strength and light weight)
now Im certainly not saying that at 6500rpm the cast cranks going to self destruct, but if you spin the engine above 4000fpm in piston speed your stress level WILL eventually cause PROBLEMS, and that also assumes your valve train will remain under total control at those rpm levels and your only OCCASIONALLY reaching that level of stress,just before shifting gears, not intending to run the engine constantly at those rpms, can you buzz the $%^%^& out of a cast crank and get away with it, PROBABLY,at least for awhile, but there WILL come a time when the stress levels and quality of the parts and care durring the assembly start to make a differance.
your rods, rod bolts and valve control issues, or getting into detonation, are usually the weak link
" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"

89RStroker
Contributor
Posts 367
89RStroker
05-28-08 08:41 PM - Post#1443496    

Sweet, i think it will be probably spinning to 6500 at max power so 7000 might never happen. One thing is for sure, when it hits 4000 it really starts waking up. I am going to set the limiter to 6600 and leave it there till i feel froggy. I wish i bought a forged crank but hell, i am happy with it. The rods are forged scat good for 650-700 HP and the pistons are forged as well, the crank is my weak link. I even have the Clevite 77 H bearings.


Thanks once again Grumpy.
6.0 LQ4, 242/248 @.050, .610/.615 lift, 110 LSA, Holley 750 Carb, Victor Jr intake, Stainless works headers, T56 6 speed trans, Moser 12 bolt 4.30 gears, manual steering and no AC.

Best to date, 7.1@97 MPH, 1.5 60 foot, stock junkyard 6.0 carb/cam

kevindtimm
Frequent Contributor
Posts 1945
kevindtimm
07-11-08 11:49 AM - Post#1475470    

I'm looking for a second opinion here, re: balancing the assembly.

In a nutshell, I'm interested in a torque machine, not an rpm monster. What I seem to be gleaning is that the balancing is not necessary if I'm going to keep my RPM below about 5500rpm. Since I've never run over 5K on this truck so far, I'm guessing I'll probably never get there (I'm getting slower, not faster).

I guess the question is (since I already have a crank ready to go):

Can I get the 5.7 rods and the correct pin height pistons, a complete gasket/ring/bearing kit, clearance the block and utilize the 400 damper/flywheel to create an engine that will live happily below that RPM threshold?
2008 Equinox LS - My only Chevy right now

grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
07-11-08 12:16 PM - Post#1475495    

should you get the assembly ballanced?

------------------------- ------------------------- ------------------------- -----

Ok youve decided to buy/build a 383 from parts youve collected from that 350 in your car, youve got the parts an your iching to start assembly....should you take the time to ballance the parts or just slap it together....
ballancing/clearancing the rotating assembly will effectively reduce the stress on the components, the amount that stress will be reduced depends on how far off the components are from the orriginals the crank,damper and flexplate or flywheel were designed for , now I think ballancing the new assemblys a NO BRAINER as its usually under $200 and even if it reduced the stress only 15% its a big improvement, but the truth here is that without reballancing youve more than likely got zero idea how far off the new parts are and you might be assembling a combo that will shake itself to pieces in 10K......Id suggesst spending the $200 and getting it done correctly.

yeah! we all know guys that skip the ballance work and run engines, we all also know guys that have constant freak engine and drive train breakage and tunning, and oil control issues/ problems, with thier cars and can,t seem to locate the source.
you can spend $150-200 in most cases up front to prevent problems or a take a chance on spending a good deal more once they occure, your choice!
and Id figgure the chances ar about like playing russian roulette with two or three cylinders loaded in your revolver

BTW
http://racingarticles.com/files/general-damper- art...

http://victorylibrary.com/tech/bal-c.htm

" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"

kevindtimm
Frequent Contributor
Posts 1945
kevindtimm
07-11-08 12:56 PM - Post#1475517    

$200 for sure isn't much (and so is what I WILL do).

Let me add one more question to this then, if I balance this assembly, does that then mean that I can run with a standrard 350 balancer and flywheel or do I still have to continue to use the 400 specific parts?
2008 Equinox LS - My only Chevy right now

grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
07-11-08 01:19 PM - Post#1475535    

that depends on several factors, if the cranks designed for an EXTERNALLY ballanced flexplate and damper like a 400 has ,you CAN get it RE-ballanced for a INTERNALLY ballanced flexplate and damper like a 350, so that you can use internally ballanced components like a 350 damper and flywheel/flexplate... but the cost is frequently higher than just buying a new crank of the correct design, generally your stuck using the type of ballance the cranks originally designed for due to counter weight size, placement and cost issues, as welding in extra mallory metal weights gets expensive fast, and forged 3.75" SBC internally ballanced cranks are not all that expensive, theres also the option of installing counter weights on the 350 components to use with the 400 crank, if you choose to go that route


http://www.scatcrankshafts.com/
" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"

kevindtimm
Frequent Contributor
Posts 1945
kevindtimm
07-11-08 01:34 PM - Post#1475545    

Interesting.

I have recv'd just the opposite information from someone else (on another board)

Very interesting.
2008 Equinox LS - My only Chevy right now

grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
07-11-08 01:48 PM - Post#1475569    

theres a DIFFERANCE between CAN, you physically do something and CAN you do it at a reasonable cost!
I know of no-one that will take the time and effort and go thru the expense to modify a 400 crank to run 350 components because an INTERNALLY ballanced 3.75" stroke crank thats designed to run those 350 components is fairly cheap and easily obtainable, but a decent shop can weld up counter weights and add enough mallory metal to reballance almost any crank to internally ballance it
" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"

kevindtimm
Frequent Contributor
Posts 1945
kevindtimm
07-11-08 09:09 PM - Post#1475897    

I see that's what the other person on the other board was talking about.

But, as you said, it's NO way going to be cost effective.

Thanks, Thanks and more thanks!
2008 Equinox LS - My only Chevy right now

Jim.Biron
"7th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts 2483
Jim.Biron
07-24-08 11:53 AM - Post#1484694    

  • 89RStroker Said:
So if i hit 6800 it might be ok?



I'm told a Ram Steel flywheel PN 1523 will do a decent job on an external balance 383. Any comments?
Jim
www.HudsonValleyCruise.com

Jim.Biron
"7th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts 2483
Jim.Biron
07-25-08 06:16 AM - Post#1485157    

  • grumpyvette Said:
that depends on several factors, if the cranks designed for an EXTERNALLY ballanced flexplate and damper like a 400 has ,you CAN get it RE-ballanced for a INTERNALLY ballanced flexplate and damper like a 350, so that you can use internally ballanced components like a 350 damper and flywheel/flexplate... but the cost is frequently higher than just buying a new crank of the correct design, generally your stuck using the type of ballance the cranks originally designed for due to counter weight size, placement and cost issues, as welding in extra mallory metal weights gets expensive fast, and forged 3.75" SBC internally ballanced cranks are not all that expensive, theres also the option of installing counter weights on the 350 components to use with the 400 crank, if you choose to go that route


http://www.scatcrankshafts.com/




BTW- How do you tell the difference between a GM cast externally balanced 400(383) flywheel (not flexplate) and a 454 flywheel? Did they make a 11" 400 flwheel?
Jim
www.HudsonValleyCruise.com

grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
07-25-08 06:44 AM - Post#1485168    

http://paceperformance.com/index.asp?PageAction=VI...

yes there ARE factory cast 14" flywheels for the 400 engine that fit 11" clutches, as to the visual differance to the 454 flywheel, Im sorry, I can,t think of anything thats ALWAYS 100% true to, visually I.D. them, as theres some interchangeability between the sbc and BBC flywheels plus I generally give factory cast flywheels away, and use a REPLACEMENT,SFI-approved.
AFTERMARKET FORGED HAYS or WEBER, ZOOM,ETC and a lakewood scatter shield as Ive seen what happends when stock cast flywheels come appart and won,t generally use them
" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"

Jim.Biron
"7th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts 2483
Jim.Biron
07-28-08 04:36 AM - Post#1486814    

  • grumpyvette Said:
http://paceperformance.com/index.asp?PageAction=VI...

yes there ARE factory cast 14" flywheels for the 400 engine that fit 11" clutches, as to the visual differance to the 454 flywheel, Im sorry, I can,t think of anything thats ALWAYS 100% true to, visually I.D. them, as theres some interchangeability between the sbc and BBC flywheels plus I generally give factory cast flywheels away, and use a REPLACEMENT,SFI-approved.
AFTERMARKET FORGED HAYS or WEBER, ZOOM,ETC and a lakewood scatter shield as Ive seen what happends when stock cast flywheels come appart and won,t generally use them



Thanks for the info!
My guess is that these 14" wheels are not to common(I also see they are discontinued) so I have to wonder if what I have now is really the right one or not (It did have a balance weight on it).
I think A new steel wheel is in the works anyway as I plan on changing my clutch fork.
Thanks again for the info.
Jim
www.HudsonValleyCruise.com

442mike
Lurker
Posts 4
08-05-08 12:20 AM - Post#1492525    

Grumpy:

I'm new on here and have been reading some of this thread, it's full of good info. Could you give me some advice about a 383 I'm building, here's the link to the thread, thanks:

http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?fi...
sean j
Forum Newbie
Posts 35
08-11-08 03:22 AM - Post#1496671    

after browsing through this thread for the last few months i have decided to replace my 305 with a 383 and i just bought a block yesterday.
what i have is a 2 bolt 010 block 40thou over.
what i want is streetability and 450hp. by streetability, i mean i want decent low end and mid range power and i don't want much more than a 2500rpm stall. i can live with a worked motor on the street, i just dont want to have to warm it up for 5 minutes before i can move it each time i want to go to the shops. its goin into a 66 impala with a 10 bolt and std gears for a 327 and PG(3.08?) and 235/60/15 tyres. budget wants a flat tappet cam, but if a roller is so much better than i will go that route.
My thoughts so far:
i am thinking a high lift (.500)cam without a lot of duration (290)? max power at 6500 or less
Looking at racer pro alloy heads(reputable australian brand)with a 200cc inlet port
750 holley vac sec.
arp studs on bottom end.

my questions
are 200cc inlet ports too big for my application?
should i use RPM air gap or Torker2?
what compression ratio for australian 98 octane(=US 94~95 octane)?
what will produce better power for my requirements, a hydrolic roller or a solid flat tappet

look forward to some opinions
cheers
sean
grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
08-11-08 08:09 AM - Post#1496804    

before jumping into building your 383 (OR ANY ENGINE PROJECT) you should strongly think about printing out a very detailed parts list and find out the TRUE cost of all the machine work at the local machine shops, and parts youll want, DON,T list just the major components, list the true cost of all the bearings, gaskets, oil pans,pushrods, cam,lifters,rods,crank,va lve covers, etc.
then compare that to a crate engine cost, in some cases youll find its actually cheaper and faster to buy a crate engine that might even have a warranty

IF you do want to build the combo yourself I think the best advice I can give is spend a good deal on the some of the best cylinder heads you can get on your budget, go for the largest displacement you can,easily afford ,don,t forget a good high capacity baffled oil pan, and that a flat tappet solid lifter cam and some decent roller rockers tend to give you good value cost vs performance and if sellected correctly more rpm on the upper band than a hydrolic roller cam, and check clearances carefully,and if your oil/lube, and cooling system is not top notch, it doesn,t make much differance what power you make the engine won,t last long under high stress.


http://www.ohiocrank.com/chev_sb_shortb.html

http://www.dougherbert.com/383chevybudgetstroker -p...

http://www.dougherbert.com/383chevysbstrokerhigh ou...

http://paceperformance.com/index.asp?PageAction=VI...

http://paceperformance.com/index.asp?PageAction=VI...
" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"

sean j
Forum Newbie
Posts 35
08-11-08 05:20 PM - Post#1497182    

have looked into crate engines grumpyvette, but i am located down in brisbane, australia. the only available crate engines are GM performance and they are about $1000 more expensive than over in the US. shipping of crate motors to australia is pretty expensive too. plus i really want to build my own motor.

I understand there are many ancillary costs, but i am trying to settle on a well matched heads/cam/compression combination.

thanks for the input so far
Jim.Biron
"7th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts 2483
Jim.Biron
08-25-08 05:40 AM - Post#1507084    

Another camshaft to use question.
Anyone have any experience with an Edelbrock 22015 roller cam kit?
I'm running a 383 with performer rpm heads and an airgap 2x4 edelbrock carb setup.
Jim
www.HudsonValleyCruise.com

grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
08-25-08 06:05 AM - Post#1507100    

http://www.jegs.com/i/Edelbrock/350/22015 /10002/-1...

SB-Chevy 283-400 Hydraulic Roller Camshaft Kit

Duration Advertised 296° Intake/300° Exhaust
Duration @ .050'' 234° Intake/238° Exhaust
Lift @ Valve .539'' Intake/.548'' Exhaust
Lift @ Cam .359'' Intake/.365'' Exhaust
Lobe Separation Angle 112°
Intake Centerline 107°
Intake Timing @ .050" Open 10° BTDC
Close 44° ABDC
Exhaust Timing @ .050" Open 56° BBDC
Close 2° ATDC



IVE used similar cam designs (durration/lift/)in the past with excellent results and $709 for the cam, roller lifters and pushrods is a good value
the only thing that makes me hesitate is the quality of edelbrocks cam cores. most IVE SEEN are not billet but cast cores which are less durable and on a 383 you want a small base circle cam......one reason I usually suggest this cam in similar combos

http://www.cranecams.com/index.php?show=browsePart...

http://www.jegs.com/i/Crane/270/119661/10 002/-1#

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/ser vlet/Keyw...

Grind Number: HR-230/359-2S-12.90 IG
Operating Range: 3000-6500 RPM
Duration Advertised: 292° Intake / 300° Exhaust
Duration @ .050'' Lift: 230° Intake / 238° Exhaust
Valve Lift w/1.5 Rockers: .539'' Intake / .558'' Exhaust
Lobe Separation Angle: 112°
Max Lift Angle: 107° ATDC Intake / 117° BTDC Exhaust
Open/Close @.050'' Cam Lift: Intake - 8° BTDC (opens) / 42° ABDC (closes)
Exhaust - 56° BBDC (opens) / 2° ATDC (closes)


with either cam youll want a 3000rpm stall converter , about 10.5:1 cpr and a 3.73-4.11:1 rear gear to maximize the preformance and a low restriction exhaust, headers and a high flow intake

IM currently running the crane 119661 cam in MY 383 and Ive tested over a dozen cams in that engine, so if its a street/strip combo ID suggest going that route, SMALL BASE CIRCLE AND BILLET CORE.....yeah! YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY,FOR and DURABILITY FOR PARTS TENDS TO COST MORE
" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"

grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
08-25-08 08:05 AM - Post#1507153    

BIGGER is NOT always BETTER, and since both the header primairy dia. and length and the collectors , which have a huge effect on the resulting scavaging can,t be changed as we change engine rpms, we need to maximize the cylinder scavaging charicteristics so as to maximize the cylinder filling and extend the rpm band of the torque curve but once your have the collectors and headers primairy designed to maximixe the scavaging in your chosen and intended rpm range and run the collectors to a (X) to induce both increased scavaging and lower restriction to flow theres not much that a larger exhaust past that point can do badly but increase the noise levels while it should be rather obvious that a smaller than ideal exhaust will hurt the upper rpm band as it tends to be a restriction
yes if you have a smaller exhaust dia. it tends to act like an extended collector and increase low rpm torque at the cost OF being A restriction ONCE THE RPMS BUILD PAST A CERTAIN POINT.having both collectors empty into an (X) pipe EFFECTIVELY instantly doubles the cross sectional area of the exhaust pulse and significantly reduces the return reflected pressure wave, almost making the collectors act as if its running without any restiction compared to a true dual exhaust IF the exhaust pipes are large enough to provide a very low restriction at that point



as I POINTED OUT ABOVE...
theres plenty of fluid dynamics math and research out there to show that the distances the exhaust travels between exhaust pulses and the diam. and length are easily calculated, and past that length the second previous pulse has little effect compared to the current and previous pulse energy and reflective wave
and lets not forget the cam timing displacement and intake port all effect the cylinder scavaging the headers can effectively provide also

http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~allan...ngth/pipe.h...

http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/runnertorquecalc.html

http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/header-tech-c.htm

http://www.headerdesign.com/

http://www.pontiacracing.net/js_header_length1.htm

http://www.slowgt.com/Calc2.htm#Header



LETS ASSUME I WANT MY 383 TO MAKE MAX POWER IN THE 5000RPM-6300RPM BAND (mostly so I can run street gears and pump high test gas and a low maintinance hydrolic roller cam, and IM willing to sacrifice a good deal of street driveability to maximize my corvettes track potential)

useing the above calculators we quickly find I should have about a 3 sq inch intake port cross sectional area, the exhaust should be about 39" long in the primairy 1.825 dia,and about 18" -20" long in the collector, about 3"-3.5" dia.
a matching compression of about 10.5:1-11:1 and a cam in the 230-235 durration range at .050 lift, heads that have the same 3 sq inch port and flow about 280cfm this will tend to maximize the power at THAT rpm band, and ideally a 3.90:1-4.11:1 rear gear ratio and a 3000rpm-3500rpm stall converter
but that above will NOT work nearly as well as a smaller and less radical combo in the 1500rpm-4500rpm most cars spend 90% of thier time in
its all a compromise and most people don,t realize how miserable that combo will make the daily driven car that rarely get above 4500rpm, where a smaller and longer exhaust would scavage more effectively but give up some of the potential for max power when the cars raced

" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"

Jim.Biron
"7th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts 2483
Jim.Biron
08-25-08 09:35 AM - Post#1507210    

  • grumpyvette Said:
http://www.jegs.com/i/Edelbrock/350/22015 /10002/-1...

SB-Chevy 283-400 Hydraulic Roller Camshaft Kit

Duration Advertised 296° Intake/300° Exhaust
Duration @ .050'' 234° Intake/238° Exhaust
Lift @ Valve .539'' Intake/.548'' Exhaust
Lift @ Cam .359'' Intake/.365'' Exhaust
Lobe Separation Angle 112°
Intake Centerline 107°
Intake Timing @ .050" Open 10° BTDC
Close 44° ABDC
Exhaust Timing @ .050" Open 56° BBDC
Close 2° ATDC



IVE used similar cam designs (durration/lift/)in the past with excellent results and $709 for the cam, roller lifters and pushrods is a good value
the only thing that makes me hesitate is the quality of edelbrocks cam cores. most IVE SEEN are not billet but cast cores which are less durable and on a 383 you want a small base circle cam......one reason I usually suggest this cam in similar combos

http://www.cranecams.com/index.php?show=browsePart...

http://www.jegs.com/i/Crane/270/119661/10 002/-1#

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/ser vlet/Keyw...

Grind Number: HR-230/359-2S-12.90 IG
Operating Range: 3000-6500 RPM
Duration Advertised: 292° Intake / 300° Exhaust
Duration @ .050'' Lift: 230° Intake / 238° Exhaust
Valve Lift w/1.5 Rockers: .539'' Intake / .558'' Exhaust
Lobe Separation Angle: 112°
Max Lift Angle: 107° ATDC Intake / 117° BTDC Exhaust
Open/Close @.050'' Cam Lift: Intake - 8° BTDC (opens) / 42° ABDC (closes)
Exhaust - 56° BBDC (opens) / 2° ATDC (closes)


with either cam youll want a 3000rpm stall converter , about 10.5:1 cpr and a 3.73-4.11:1 rear gear to maximize the preformance and a low restriction exhaust, headers and a high flow intake

IM currently running the crane 119661 cam in MY 383 and Ive tested over a dozen cams in that engine, so if its a street/strip combo ID suggest going that route, SMALL BASE CIRCLE AND BILLET CORE.....yeah! YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY,FOR and DURABILITY FOR PARTS TENDS TO COST MORE



The operating range seems a bit high. Am I missing something or am I just looking at too much cam for a limited street motor (read as non daily driver) not a track star.

Oh yeah... this is a M-20 (wide ratio) trans and 3.73 rear gear with 275-60-15 tires in my 66 Belair.
Cruising for m seems to be at the 2500 rpm level.
Jim
www.HudsonValleyCruise.com

grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
08-25-08 10:49 AM - Post#1507264    

your 100% correct if you were looking to cruise at 2500rpm , the cams above will be a P.I.T.A. on a car designed mostly for mid rpm cruiseing, you could get good performance from them but the street manors in traffic will be less than ideal....certainly manageable but not exactly smooth

youll be far better off with something similar to these, if street manors and low to mid rpm cruising are a higher priorty, but have a LONG talk with the manufacturer of your choice about your combo and expectations before sellecting your cam and matching your combo gearing and compression, head lift restrictions and flow charicteristics

http://www.tpis.com/index.php?module=catalog_page&...

ZZ-9 HydraulicRoller:
Intake Exhaust This is an emission legal cam which makes
Advertised Duration 282/ 287 over 400HP with our CNC"D LT heads and
Duration at .050 212 /226 F-car headers. Great with an auto or six
Gross Lift .483/.520 speed.
Lobe Separation 112


http://www.crower.com/misc/m_cat.shtml

http://www.crower.com/misc/cam_spec/cam_fin der.php...

http://www.cranecams.com/?show=browseParts& ;lvl...
" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"

grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
08-25-08 12:25 PM - Post#1507354    


bjhines posted these and thier good examples
looking thru an (X) pipe



mocking it up


" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"

grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
08-25-08 02:43 PM - Post#1507462    

GOSFAST posted this great photo to illustrate the differance between rod designs



http://www.scatcrankshafts.com/index.htm

rods designed like the 3 SERIES generally won,t work with stroker cranks while the 2 series usually will

the connecting rods you sellect make a huge differance in the rod to cam lobe clearance, even a small base cam won,t clear some designs, it should be obvious that the connecting rod with the thru bolt has a great deal less cam lobe clearance potentially than the cap screw design next to it., and the cap screw rod probably clears the blocks oil pan rail area easier also

http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/forums/attachm...

don,t get crazy
" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"

grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
08-27-08 06:26 AM - Post#1508744    

Im running that crane 119661 cam retarded 4 degrees BTW but detonation has not been a problem, remember that the coolant temp, air temps the engine sees, QUENCH distance, type of head gasket and its construction ,ignition advance,plug heat range,piston to bore clearance, exhaust valve seat width, and oil temp and pollishing your combustion chamber and piston domes, and your AIR/FUEL RATIO , and the effective DYNAMIC compression ratio, have a noticable effect on detonation


and if you do see detonation, theres octane boosters like TOULUENE

http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/misc/octaneb ooster...

http://www.team.net/sol/tech/octane_b.html

http://www.elektro.com/~audi/audi/toluene.html
" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"

Jim.Biron
"7th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts 2483
Jim.Biron
09-30-08 07:56 AM - Post#1532235    

Looks like I just dropped my last post...
Trying again. :-)

Grumpy,
I'm wondering if you can make a recommendation for me for my 383. I've included what I have now below. I'm going to be checking the cam lobes this weekend and if one is bad its replacement time.
I'd like a cam that would allow me to run up to 6200-6500.
I'd like a cam with a "rough" idle. :-)
I can change the rockers to 1.5 or 1.52s.
I'd like a recommendation of a flat tappet and a roller. I have not decided if I want to go the extra $$$ for the roller parts. (the block is a 80-85 casting)
Lastly.... I've seen a lot of 'bad' cams go belly up over the last couple of years (10 cams in 2 years at the shop) What are the things I should ask the manuf before I put my money down?
I have posted before but time does change things.

Also do you see anything below that you would question???

Below is what I have now...

383 SBC
• 440 hp @ 5800 RPM 448 ft. lbs torque 5100 RPM
• All new internals professionally
• Prepared block
Machine Work
• Select Hi Tin block 4 bolt main machined 030 040 060 -
• align bore and or check for run out.full race clearancing
• Mag Check-preasure check ...
• Hot Tank - Jet Wash ....
• Bore Torque Plate Hone ... Torque Plate Gives True Finish
• Clearance block - -casting flash only..
• shotpeen rods...
• Dynamic balance assembly..
• File fit rings - blue print clearance...
• press - pistons to rods...
• Install cam bearings - freeze plugs...
• Port blue print cylinder heads...

All new Performance Internal Parts
• Speed pro hyperutectic pistons 10.3 to 1 piston set[ PUMP GAS OK 91 OCTANE
• EAGLE STEEL crank with superior wear sized and indexed.
• Childs & Albert - zz gapdura Moly File Fit Rings... [provides the ultimate in ring sealing making more power!!
• Durabond - cam bearings...
• gm pink forged steel rods
• ARP - wavelock - rod bolts...
• Clevite- -bearings tri metal 77 - rod and main...
• comp cams custom hi output cam lifter set ..
• Cloyes - true roller set...
• Comp - cams cam locks...
• comp cams xe chrome moly pushrods
• Dyna gear race - oil pump...
• Dyna gear - pickup...
• ARP - steel drive...
• After market - oil pan. baffeld 5 qt
• After market - timing cover...
• pioneer/arp - head bolts...
• ARP/ - rocker studs 3/8...
• Fel Pro blue - gasket sets...
- Power Making Featured Parts
• ALL NEW EDITION EDELBROCK HEADS WITH REVISED COMBUSTION CHAMBERS CNC PORTS POWER MAKING FEATURES!!. Bowls blended,full ...
o Features - - -severe duty 2.02/1.60 valves plus ... 1.25 springs 7 degree super locks comp cam parts..good porting..3/8studs guide plates.gasket match p.c seals.chrome moly retainers[with mild port work these heads are better than ANY OUT BOX HEADS YOU COULD PUT ON FROM SAME MANUFACTURE
• hi perfromance roller rockers-1.6 ratio...
• comp cams custom series- -muscle car cam Features - 110 center line 488 - 490 lift corrected 1.6 ratio = 520/522 lift. 226/228 dur @ 050 awesome power range 2000 stall.
Jim
www.HudsonValleyCruise.com

grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
09-30-08 10:22 AM - Post#1532302    

whats your transmission (obviously its an auto trans but which one?) and whats your rear gear ratio and tire dia. or height? which edelbrock head part number?? what intake manifold?,what headers size? carb size?,ETC.
" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"

Jim.Biron
"7th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts 2483
Jim.Biron
09-30-08 10:46 AM - Post#1532320    

  • grumpyvette Said:
whats your transmission (obviously its an auto trans but which one?) and whats your rear gear ratio and tire dia. or height? which edelbrock head part number?? what intake manifold?,what headers size? carb size?,ETC.



Sorry no auto any longer... its an M20 (wide ratio) 3.73 rear with a 28" tire (275-60-15)
Headers are Edelbrock performer RPM 64 CC Straight plugs (I believe part#60899)
The intake is now a dual 4bbl Edelbrock performer rpm air gap (part# 20254)
Headers I'm not sure about. The primary seems to be 1 5/8 with a 3" collector. I've had them for some time. I couldn't say about the length.
Thanks for any help.
Jim

Jim
www.HudsonValleyCruise.com

grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
09-30-08 02:17 PM - Post#1532465    

well, it should be rather obvious that the engines slightly under cammed too maximize the potential,but you don,t want to go quite as far as that max potential due to its used on the street and having a combo with decent engine charicteristics in traffic is a big plus here, so swapping too a small solid flat tappet cam to allow the engine to easily spin up to 6400rpm and keep the cost low would be my suggestion
heres what ID SUGGEST you run with the 1.6:1 ratio rockers


read thru this
http://www.circletrack.com/enginetech/ctrp_0807_ fl...


http://www.crower.com/misc/m_cat.shtml (PG 141)

the cool face lifters and this cam

http://www.crower.com/misc/cam_spec/cam_fin der.php...

preventing cam & lifter break-in failures

OPTIONS

it should be rather obvious that theres options, cam failures are usually the result of incorrect CLEARANCES or too much SPRING PRESSURE or LACK of ADEQUATE LUBRICATION,USE DECENT MOLY CAM LUBE, and decent quality oil, adding MAGNETS to trap metalic CRUD HELPS

READ
http://www.cranecams.com/?show=faq&id=1

(1) get a decent ROLLER CAM, add a high voluum oil pump, baffled 8 qt oil pan, with a windage screen and check your clearances and avoid the problem,USE DECENT MOLY CAM LUBE,and decent quality oil,adding MAGNETS to trap metalic CRUD HELPS


(2) use a SOLID lifter flat tappet cam with lifters with the lube feed holes,add a high voluum oil pump, baffled 8 qt oil pan, with a windage screen and check your clearances and avoid the problem,USE DECENT MOLY CAM LUBE, and decent quality oil,adding MAGNETS to trap metalic CRUD HELPS


http://www.competitionproducts.com/prodinfo.asp?nu...

(3) mod the lifter bores for more oil flow,add a high voluum oil pump, baffled 8 qt oil pan, with a windage screen and check your clearances and avoid the problem,USE DECENT MOLY CAM LUBE,and decent quality oil,adding MAGNETS to trap metalic CRUD HELPS


http://www.compperformancegroupstore s.com/store/me...


(4)USE DECENT MOLY CAM LUBE

[url]http://www.cranecams.com/index.php?show=browseParts& lvl=2&prt=15[/url],
add a high voluum oil pump, baffled 8 qt oil pan, with a windage screen and check your clearances and avoid the problem,and decent quality oil,adding MAGNETS to trap metalic CRUD HELPS


(5) thinking things thru and verifying clearances and spring pressures, and having a well thought thru lube system will significantly lower your chances of having problems,USE DECENT MOLY CAM LUBE,and decent quality oil,adding MAGNETS to trap metalic CRUD HELPS
.......I have not seen a cam fail in years UNLESS the guy installing it failed to follow those tips


anyone see a PATTERN?

you might want to read thru this AGAIN

http://www.cranecams.com/?show=article&id= 2]ht...

FROM MORTEC
If you are building a SMALL or BIG block Chevy with a flat tappet cam, (solid or hydraulic lifters) be careful during the initial engine break in. It is very easy to lose a cam lobe and lifter during initial break in. This is especially true with a higher than stock lift cam and higher pressure valve springs. The increased pushrod angles found on the BBC and poor preparation can make cam lobe failure after initial fireup a distinct possibility. You can help prevent this cam lobe failure by making sure the engine is prelubed prior to intial fireup. Use a good high pressure lube on the cam lobes and lifter bottoms during assembly. If possible use a lighter pressure stock valve spring (or if using a valve spring with multiple springs, take out some of the inner springs) to intially run the engine. Then switch to the heavier pressure springs after break in. When the engine is first fired up, keep the engine rpms at 2,500 or above, don't let the engine idle for 20 minutes or longer. This keeps lots of oil splashing up on the cam lobes. Make sure the engine can be run for this time period by having enough fuel available, ignition timing set correctly, coolant available for the motor, valve lash set correctly, etc. The idea is not to crank the motor over excessively before it starts up for the first time. If your BBC flat tappet cam survives this initial break in period, it will be good to go for many miles. After the initial engine breakin, drain the oil and change the oil filter. Roller cams generally do not suffer these types of cam lobe failures during initial engine fireup.
if youve adjusted the valves correctly the lifter spins at all rpm levels,but that does NOT mean it wears EVENLY at all rpm levels due to several factors if you [color="orange"] look closely AT FLAT TAPPET CAMS youll see that the center of the cam lobe is NOT centered under the lifter and that the lifter surface is slightly angled , BOTH these factors force the lifter to spin in its bore as the lobe passes under the lifter slightly off center.

SOME of the reasons the higher rpm durring the break in phase is important is that

(1) the faster RPMs the better chances the lobe passes under the lifter floated on an oil film and the less time the oil film has to squeeze out between them

(2) the higher the RPM the greater the oil voluum and pressure the engine pumps and the more oil flow is available at the lobes

(3)the higher the rpm level the more oil is thrown from the rods onto the cam lobes

(4)the higher the rpm the greater the lifters weight and inertia tends to compensate for the springs pressure and lower the net pressure as the lifter passes over the cam lobes nose

(5) at higher rpm speed the better chance a small wedge of oil is trapped between the lifter base and lobe from the oil thrown from the lobes surface by centrifical force

(6) two differant metal surfaces scraping past each other at low speeds may tend to wear and GALL as the oil is sqeezed out but two differant hardness steel surfaces that impact each other at higher speeds covered with oil tend to work harden as they mate and will tend to be seperated by that oil

(7)as the lifter spins in its bore the contact point between the lobe and lifter base constantly changes and rotates with the lobe contact point not resisting its passage and the higher the rpms the faster the lifter rotates and the less time the lobe spends at any one point

BTW ADD E.O.S. to the oil and MOLY break-in lube to the cam
before starting the engine and prefill the filter and pre-prime the oil system before starting the engine.
I normally pour it in just before starting the engines cam break in,procedure. because I want to make sure that nothing in the oil/E.O.S. mix can settle out from sitting over a long period of time. now if your running a flat tappet cam you should have also used a moly cam lube on the lobes and be useing a mineral base oil for the break-in procedure, and youll need to do an oil and filter change after about the first 3-4 hours running time to remove that moly cam lube from the engine after its served its purpose of protecting the cams lobes and lifters at start up, aND AS THE LOBES/LIFTERS LAPPED IN. MOSTLY to prevent that moly grease and E.O.S from potentially partially clogging the filter after that mix cools down,but also because both those lubes might leave deposites in the combustion chamber ,over time that might aggravate detonation.
even G.M. suggests that E.O.S. is not a great long term oil suppliment, and that its main function is to add extra oil film strength durring new engine break in.

http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/results.cfm?singlepar...


don,t forget a few magnets in the oil pan goes a long way towards trapping unwanted metalic dust formed from the cam and rings lapping in durring break-in that might otherwise get imbedded in your bearings or cause other problems
heres the magnets I use in every engine
add a few magnets to the oil pan and drain back area in your engine, the trap and hold metalic dust that comes from wear and increase engine life span by preventing that crap embedding in the bearings

http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetai...d=D66SH&...

http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=D66...

http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=D82...

these are even more tollerant of temp swings and retain strength at even higher engine oil temps plus they are smaller and easier to use
" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"

Jim.Biron
"7th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts 2483
Jim.Biron
10-01-08 04:18 AM - Post#1532854    

Some really great info there Grumpy.
I've looked through most of it and I do have a question about the 00304 cam. The specs for it indicate 1.6 Intake and 1.5 Exhaust rockers. What will be the implication using my 1.6 rockers across the board?

I have to tell you that I really appreciate the time you took to get me this info. It's truely an amazing job!!
Jim
www.HudsonValleyCruise.com

grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
10-01-08 06:06 AM - Post#1532907    

the 1.6:1 ratio rockers everywhere will be fine!
(yes you really should upgrade to that crower cam)
" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"

Jim.Biron
"7th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts 2483
Jim.Biron
10-01-08 06:23 AM - Post#1532915    

  • grumpyvette Said:
the 1.6:1 ratio rockers everywhere will be fine!



Now to see if I 'really' do need a cam. I'll have to wait for the weekend to get a dial and also I'll be chaking for leakdown in case I have abent valve.

As I said I really do appreciate your help. This has been GREAT!!
Jim
www.HudsonValleyCruise.com

stroked83
Contributor
Posts 240
10-01-08 03:19 PM - Post#1533206    

that is very good information....

grumpy or anyone. i would like to have a
"mind dyno" just as of specs have all my money into the engine and dont have the money for a couple dyno runs...

nowhere else to post but 383 BUILDS.

-350 .06 over
-KB forged 13cc dished.
-9.8 compression
-5.7 forged scat rods
-scat cst crank
-trick flow 23 degree heads 64 CC
-40 head gasket
-lunati Voodoo SOLID ROLLER dur @.050 231/237 lift 555/566 LSA 110 Lash at .016
-1.5 roller rockers
-Cloyes dbl roller chain
-Victor JR. Intake
-Holley 750 double pumper
-Headman Headers 1 5/8 3in collectors
-Mallory Unilite


anybody want to chim in on the numbers...or has something relitivley close to these specs that has any numbers...

please throw out anything.

Thanks
83 silverado c-10 short bed
383ci lunati cam, dart heads, 750 demon, cal-tracs bars
8.2902 @ 83.15mph 1/8 mile 3950lbs

Jim.Biron
"7th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts 2483
Jim.Biron
10-08-08 07:07 AM - Post#1537600    

  • Jim.Biron Said:
  • grumpyvette Said:
the 1.6:1 ratio rockers everywhere will be fine!



Now to see if I 'really' do need a cam. I'll have to wait for the weekend to get a dial and also I'll be chaking for leakdown in case I have abent valve.

As I said I really do appreciate your help. This has been GREAT!!




Ok, I got the bad news...
1) The flywheel is in fact a 3973457 (big Block)not a 3986394. So much for the vibration.
2) Looks like the cam may be bad as #8 doesn't lift as high as the rest.
3) Also #1 seems to leak down a lot worse than the other cyls.


So now some questions...
1) When I change the flywheel does it need to be balanced to the rest of the rotating assembly or will a new SFI 383-400 flywheel do the job?
2) I'm considering a new shortblock rather than redoing this one (I'll redo it later). Anyone hear of 'The Engine Store' (an eBAY vendor) They sell an INTERNALLY balanced 383 shortblock for $1699 with shipping included. Take a look at this.
Item # 150301374072
or
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CHEVY-383- STROKER-S...

I'm interested in any/all comments.
Jim
www.HudsonValleyCruise.com

grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
10-08-08 07:58 AM - Post#1537626    



THE PICTURE IS OF AN EXTERNALLY BALLANCED ASSEMBLY, NOTICE THE COUNTER WEIGHT ON THE LOWER FLEXPLATE AND THE THICK PARTIAL RIM ON THE DAMPER

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...
" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"

Jim.Biron
"7th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts 2483
Jim.Biron
10-08-08 08:13 AM - Post#1537641    

  • grumpyvette Said:


THE PICTURE IS OF AN EXTERNALLY BALLANCED ASSEMBLY, NOTICE THE COUNTER WEIGHT ON THE LOWER FLEXPLATE AND THE THICK PARTIAL RIM ON THE DAMPER



No question there. However I think they said 'free internal balancing' I'll bet this was the only 'nice' pic they had. As many ads say... "the picture may not represent the exact item being offered."
Jim
www.HudsonValleyCruise.com

grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
10-08-08 10:22 AM - Post#1537731    

looking over the listed parts Im thinking youll be better off refurbishing your current block
youll have a much better parts list and the differance in cost will pay for a local shop to clean,bore & hone and add freeze plugs and cam bearings too your current block if necessary

http://www.ohiocrank.com/chevsb_rotate.html

383 Street Rodder
Price
SRP forged flat-top pistons
Forged I-beam 6" rods

5140 3.75 forged steel crank
Race bearings and rings

Internally balanced
$1,295

just keep in mind the other sellected components,cam,compresson ratio,quench,intake, heads and the oil system components will have a huge effect on the resulting combos durrtability and hp/tq
" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"

Jim.Biron
"7th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts 2483
Jim.Biron
10-09-08 07:38 AM - Post#1538255    

  • grumpyvette Said:
looking over the listed parts Im thinking youll be better off refurbishing your current block
youll have a much better parts list and the differance in cost will pay for a local shop to clean,bore & hone and add freeze plugs and cam bearings too your current block if necessary

http://www.ohiocrank.com/chevsb_rotate.html

383 Street Rodder
Price
SRP forged flat-top pistons
Forged I-beam 6" rods

5140 3.75 forged steel crank
Race bearings and rings

Internally balanced
$1,295

just keep in mind the other sellected components,cam,compresson ratio,quench,intake, heads and the oil system components will have a huge effect on the resulting combos durrtability and hp/tq



I know I have a million questions BUT... :-)
Are you running internally or externally balance in your 383. Why did you choose that route?
Jim
www.HudsonValleyCruise.com

Jim.Biron
"7th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts 2483
Jim.Biron
10-09-08 07:40 AM - Post#1538259    

  • Jim.Biron Said:
  • grumpyvette Said:
looking over the listed parts Im thinking youll be better off refurbishing your current block
youll have a much better parts list and the differance in cost will pay for a local shop to clean,bore & hone and add freeze plugs and cam bearings too your current block if necessary

http://www.ohiocrank.com/chevsb_rotate.html

383 Street Rodder
Price
SRP forged flat-top pistons
Forged I-beam 6" rods

5140 3.75 forged steel crank
Race bearings and rings

Internally balanced
$1,295

just keep in mind the other sellected components,cam,compresson ratio,quench,intake, heads and the oil system components will have a huge effect on the resulting combos durrtability and hp/tq



I know I have a million questions BUT... :-)
Are you running internally or externally balanced in your 383. Why did you choose that route?



Jim
www.HudsonValleyCruise.com

grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
10-09-08 07:48 AM - Post#1538265    

Im running an internally ballanced, fully forged rotating assembly, with 7/16" L19 arp rod bolt rods,
simply because the extra cost is far less up front than a rotating assembly failure at high rpms would result in, you need to realize that comeing up with a few hundred dollars extra in an engine builds parts costs, while a major P.I.T.A. and something that will slow progress, is still a wise investment IF YOU INTEND to beat the #$%^ out of the engine occasionally by racing it and its well worth the extra expence in piece of mind, in not expecting things to come apart if your engine exceeds lets say, 6500rpm, with a 383 and its 3.75" stroke, where your getting into risky territory with cast cranks and stock style rods

I posted a list of my current 383 engine components earlier in the thread
http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

I recently got asked about the cost of machining a block , heads etc.obviously what needs to be done and what your intended use for the engine is has almost as much to do with the cost as the blocks true condition and what the machine shop charges.
this has never been a cheap hobby, especially if you want things done correctly so they last under high stress conditions
I know many guys are staggered by the costs a machine-shop charge's for the machine work, and thats one reason that that super bargain block you find, on craigs list or e-bay for a couple hundred dollars could very easily cost you an additional $700-$1500 in machine work alone
youll be amazed at what most machine shops charge for work (labor) you can do on your own if you have a few tools and your willing to do some research into whats required, obviously you can,t do major machine work like decking or boring a block but theses a great deal of time intensive and expensive work you can do!
really simple things like knowing how to use a spring micrometer, caliper, and plasti-gauge and a spring compressor, and die grinder, and some research into how to do things correctly and why certain modifications benefit an engine build can save you thousands of dollars in machine shop costs

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...
" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"

Jim.Biron
"7th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts 2483
Jim.Biron
10-09-08 08:44 AM - Post#1538287    

  • grumpyvette Said:
Im running an internally ballanced, fully forged rotating assembly, with 7/16" L19 arp rod bolt rods,
simply because the extra cost is far less up front than a rotating assembly failure at high rpms would result in, you need to realize that comeing up with a few hundred dollars extra in an engine builds parts costs, while a major P.I.T.A. and something that will slow progress, is still a wise investment IF YOU INTEND to beat the #$%^ out of the engine occasionally by racing it and its well worth the extra expence in piece of mind, in not expecting things to come apart if your engine exceeds lets say, 6500rpm, with a 383 and its 3.75" stroke, where your getting into risky territory with cast cranks and stock style rods

I posted a list of my current 383 engine components earlier in the thread



I looked over the list again and had to wipe my keyboard from the drool.

I did notice the 5140 in your suggestion vs. a 4340 on your crank. Should I consider the extra $$$ for a 4340 considering ony occassional beating?
Jim
www.HudsonValleyCruise.com

grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
10-09-08 08:58 AM - Post#1538292    

  • Jim.Biron Said:
  • grumpyvette Said:
Im running an internally ballanced, fully forged rotating assembly, with 7/16" L19 arp rod bolt rods,
simply because the extra cost is far less up front than a rotating assembly failure at high rpms would result in, you need to realize that comeing up with a few hundred dollars extra in an engine builds parts costs, while a major P.I.T.A. and something that will slow progress, is still a wise investment IF YOU INTEND to beat the #$%^ out of the engine occasionally by racing it and its well worth the extra expence in piece of mind, in not expecting things to come apart if your engine exceeds lets say, 6500rpm, with a 383 and its 3.75" stroke, where your getting into risky territory with cast cranks and stock style rods

I posted a list of my current 383 engine components earlier in the thread



I looked over the list again and had to wipe my keyboard from the drool.

I did notice the 5140 in your suggestion vs. a 4340 on your crank. Should I consider the extra $$$ for a 4340 considering ony occassional beating?



a cast steel crank like the SCAT 9000 series (not cast iron) will work in many cases but its not nearly as strong as a forged 5140 steel crank which is fine,even for racing in most cases, that steel was not an option I had when purchasing my crank,and Id point out the cost and strength differance is minor between the two forged steels so either way your fine on a street strip engine
" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"

442mike
Lurker
Posts 4
11-01-08 01:58 PM - Post#1554805    

I am in the infantile stages of my 383 build and need some advice. I have my gen 1 block from the machine shop clearanced, bored (4.03), honed with something around 300/330. I would like to put as close to 400hp/tq to the wheels I could get between 5200-5800 rpm.

But also have some other things to think about - the block is a 2 bolt main, and I'm not too worried about the performance if I bought main studs for it (what else will help strengthen the block?). I don't have much money (in college right now), but will save for quality parts.

I want to run around a 280-290 cam and have heard AFR has the best flowing heads out of the box. I am at the rotating assembly stage, my question is where do I start ?

Do I first buy the heads and have them flow tested? (I'm not building a race car). Do I buy the cam first and match everything else? Or do I put a stout crank/rod/piston assembly in before the next step?-> which is what I want to do. (...with help from older guys who know what they're doing of course)

Edit- heres the link to an old thread I forgot about, In that time I've saved up a bunch of cash and am ready to buy some parts.
http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?fi...
grumpyvette
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts 16145
grumpyvette
11-11-08 03:14 PM - Post#1561873    

first your link doesn,t seem to work.
you have read thru the rest of this thread correct?


you START by listing components that match your intended goal, and following a known combo is probably the best route, then you do a few DD2000 runs to verify your in the ball park,BEFORE BUYING MATCHED COMPONENTS THAT MATCH YOUR GOALS

ok we need to know the car weight, the rear gear ratio the tire dia. the type of transmission, and if youve got an auto trans the stall speed on the tq converter, do you need to run pump gas? is it mostly for the street or street/strip use, and we also need to know if you need to pass emission tests and what your budget and realistic use for the car will be ?...btw you can,t possiably sellect the correct cam, heads,intake and headers with out that info, and we need to know your skill level and available tools

and you surely don,t need the expence of the afr heads if you have a 400hp goal if you want to keep cost down a bit,
fill in some answers and ILL suggest a few components

Let me give you a bit of hard won wisdom that took me decades to fully understand,... if your ever going to build a well thought thru car & engine combo youll be happy with its takes planing and a consistent effort and sustained budget allocation to completing the project and you need both the tools and a place to work, you need to do the research and NOT change goals every few weeks or buy random BARGAIN parts

yes it may take you several days to read thru the links and many sub links, it will save you hundreds of dollars and months of work so take the time!


(1) decide on exactly what you want when your finished and think thru a reasonable budget and time frame
this means if you really want a big block corvette don,t waste time and money building a 350 sbc in a caprice just because its available and cheap.

(2) have a place to work and get a decent engine stand to work on,you don,t need much more than a small tool selection and space for an engine stand with an engine on it and a plastic tarp , many tools can be rented or borrowed, but you do need to do the required research and buy and correctly assemble the correct matched parts
(you can always sell it when your done if this was a one time project)

(3) have a second transportation vehicle or build your performance engine slowly over time correctly,and separately is by far the better route here!
constant minor changes and parts up grades resulting in miss matched components to the primary transportation vehicle ALWAYS eventually causes you problems

(4) don,t buy parts that don,t match your goal just because you get a SCREAMING DEAL on the parts PRICE,...ESPECIALLY USED PARTS

(5) don,t forget the IMPROVED , BRAKES, DRIVE TRAIN GEARING, SUSPENSION,TIRES AND COOLING SYSTEM, ELECTRICAL AND LUBRICATION UPGRADES THAT WILL BE REQUIRED BEFORE you install the new high performance engine your building



RELATED INFO
http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...
" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"

stroked83
Contributor
Posts 240
11-21-08 11:30 AM - Post#1568647    

i set down did millions of research. Got the combo i wanted and the goal

i started with rotating assembly

350 .06 over
-KB forged 13cc dished.
-9.8 compression w? 64cc
-5.7 forged scat rods w/ 7/16 capscrews
-scat crank 9000

i have a idea of 450 475 horse.
but bigger cam and nice heads will get you there...

and i think w/ flywheel and balancer bearings rings all balanced from scat was 1300 to my door
83 silverado c-10 short bed
383ci lunati cam, dart heads, 750 demon, cal-tracs bars
8.2902 @ 83.15mph 1/8 mile 3950lbs

Jim.Biron
"7th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts 2483
Jim.Biron
11-29-08 07:13 AM - Post#1573624    

  • Jim.Biron Said:
  • Jim.Biron Said:
  • grumpyvette Said:
the 1.6:1 ratio rockers everywhere will be fine!



Now to see if I 'really' do need a cam. I'll have to wait for the weekend to get a dial and also I'll be chaking for leakdown in case I have abent valve.

As I said I really do appreciate your help. This has been GREAT!!




Ok, I got the bad news...
1) The flywheel is in fact a 3973457 (big Block)not a 3986394. So much for the vibration.
2) Looks like the cam may be bad as #8 doesn't lift as high as the rest.
3) Also #1 seems to leak down a lot worse than the other cyls.


So now some questions...
1) When I change the flywheel does it need to be balanced to the rest of the rotating assembly or will a new SFI 383-400 flywheel do the job?
2) I'm considering a new shortblock rather than redoing this one (I'll redo it later). Anyone hear of 'The Engine Store' (an eBAY vendor) They sell an INTERNALLY balanced 383 shortblock for $1699 with shipping included. Take a look at this.
Item # 150301374072
or
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CHEVY-383- STROKER-S...

I'm interested in any/all comments.



Well, I finally got to replacing the flywheel with a 400 one and guess what... Still vibrates the heck out of me beginning at 3500 or so. Looks like I may have more problems that I thought.
So now its going to the shop one final time this year... yanking the engine and seeing just what the heck is going on. I've found a good shop (one that does race engines for a road course team) and I'll have them look over my setup. Geez... this is driving me crazy!
Jim
www.HudsonValleyCruise.com

383camaro91
Forum Newbie
Posts 2
02-02-10 06:36 PM - Post#1855187    

grumpy i have a budget of around a 1000$ to rebuild a chevy 350 into a 383. what should i buy to get the most bang for my buck the 350 currently has 882 heads
383camaro91
Forum Newbie
Posts 2
02-02-10 09:09 PM - Post#1855307    

i forgot to say its goin in a 91 camaro ill prolly end up changin the gears and m not sure what size tires they are beacause i havent baught the car yet also should i have it bored out and if so how much should i buy different heads and i can hoan and port match and reface valves
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